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What should have come with new boiler?

(22 Posts)
alltheworld Sat 17-Dec-16 21:43:25

So fitted new boiler as part of loft conversion. I see from another thread that wise pigletjohn says not to put in attic but is too late now. Boiler is now installed in a cupboard over the new stairs to loft. A basic thermostat is on the wall below but no other control panel. Obviously I can't climb a ladder every time I want to adjust the heating via the controller on the actual boiler itself, so should a control panel been fitted on the wall beneath as standard, or should I have expected to pay extra for that? And would a control panel or a remote control do everything I would need to do, or will I still have to climb up a ladder to boiler?
Also should I not have had a gas safe cert, a logbook, instructions manual, guarantee and a benchmark thing?

specialsubject Sat 17-Dec-16 22:02:42

..and building regs notification done by your gas safe registered installer. Wasn't any of this discussed in the quote?

lalalonglegs Sat 17-Dec-16 22:03:50

No, you shouldn't have expected the extra control panel, you should have stipulated it (and paid extra). It shouldn't be a huge job to fix one though, just annoying that no one pointed it out at the time. Yes, you should certainly have been given an installation certificate, manual and a form that you can then use to register the boiler with the manufacturer to start the warranty. Chase the engineer for all of these things.

alltheworld Sat 17-Dec-16 22:23:09

Thanks.. The loft quote says all work is certified and I have said I am not paying the final instalment until I get the building regs and other certificates.
The position of the boiler was changed post quote and as I have never had a new boiler before, didn't realise about the control panel. The builders just kept saying there would be an on off button next to the thermostat.
Happy to pay extra to get a proper control panel fitted. Do these do everything the interface on the boiler does or will I still have to climb up a ladder?

Herschellmum Sat 17-Dec-16 22:32:13

You could look into things like hives that you can control with your phone and or on the thermostat.

I don't think you get extras these days, you would have got a theostat with British gas but you would have paid for it, but they would have just added it, if they makes sense?

A simple thermostat shouldn't cost too much, a nice type thing cost a lot, like £260, whereas I normal one is probably less than £100, but depends what you want.

alltheworld Sat 17-Dec-16 22:51:21

There is a basic thermostat but nothing to control water temp or water/heating on. At the moment the heating is on all the time.

PigletJohn Sat 17-Dec-16 23:34:11

if the thermostat is set to a temperature lower than actual room temperature, the heating will be off.

The cheapest wall stat is something like
www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-rts8-room-thermostat/46637
which is a good make and perfectly serviceable, but it would be very strange to fit one without a separate timer.

Much better is this one which can be wired in as a direct swap for the one above
www.plumbworld.co.uk/honeywell-cm907-7-day-761-17210
(the price is low because a new model has recently come out)
which sets the on/of times as well as room temperature, and you can set different temperatures for different times of day and day of week. You can also override it at whim, and it will return to the normal schedule after your choice of between one hour (e.g. if you are staying up late) up to 99 days (e.g. you are going on holiday)

You can also get wireless and internet ones, though IMO they are more likely to go wrong.

alltheworld Mon 19-Dec-16 22:18:56

Thanks piglet John. In a rush today went with the vaillant 350 wired and told loft company the plumber had to come back to fit it. But piglet you were right re lofts. Vaillant saying no guarantee without approved servicers and servicers won't go up a ladder. Plus valiant were saying, has your boiler been commissioned, is the checklist filled out? No to the latter, so no warranty. Apparently. Loft man says you wanted a boiler installed, we installed a boiler. Yes, but it's not much good if I can't get it serviced!

alltheworld Mon 19-Dec-16 23:34:57

I don't think the thermostat is connected. When the boiler is on it is hot All the time and there is no option to get. It lower than 10. Also there is a lot of moisture behind the boiler already.. Wonder if it is venting properly.

PigletJohn Mon 19-Dec-16 23:45:33

the boiler has to be fitted by a Gas Safe Registered installer.

If a person who is not registered (or working under the direction of a registered person or company) installed it, and charged for the work, I believe they can be prosecuted.

www.gassaferegister.co.uk/

A builder is likely to have sub-contracted to an inexpensive local gas installer he knows.

Have you paid yet?

PigletJohn Tue 20-Dec-16 00:05:26

I'm sure the Vaillant programmer will be fine. However I'm not happy if it was installed on the landing wall. It is much better to have it in the living room that you use most, and has not got a fire, stove or other source of heat in it.

If you have TRVs on your radiators you may be able to get by.

The multicore cable used to connect the programmer to the boiler is surprisingly expensive, so the installer may have put it in a place that suited him. This is easier to deal with when the floors are up and pipes are being laid all over the place. It may be possible to run the cable down a plumbing duct, if you have one in the corner of your bathroom and kitchen, inside will be the soil pipe and probably the incoming water pipe.

edit
I just looked up the cable, and wholesalers price is about £50 for a 50 meter reel. I suppose the installer will try to charge you retail price for it. I think B&Q charge about £2 a metre but I can't see it.

You may find the prices flexes if you want it put in a more sensible place.

Ask the installer his name, and if he is gas-safe registered (try opening the conversation by asking if he can give you a card, and can you call on him to service it in future). If he is awkward look for any name and accreditations on his van.

PigletJohn Tue 20-Dec-16 00:12:18

p.s.

Servicers will probably be content if there is fixed access (not wobbly steps or ladder). If you can lay your hands on a carpenter he can fit you a loft ladder if there is room for it to slide and tilt or fold beside the hatch.

Wooden ones are more steady than aluminium ones, but heavier.

Most will fit a 8ft ceiling (2400mm) but if you have a 12'6 (3 metre) or higher ceiling you will need a longer model. There also needs to be safe flooring between the hatch and the boiler, and lighting. Sorry I don't know what to do with a high cupboard over the stairs. I am fretting about your budget.

alltheworld Tue 20-Dec-16 00:21:29

Thanks pigletjohn. I don't know who installed it. The loft man organised it. I have paid already for the boiler and fitting but not paid the balance for the loft works which I am holding back. The loft company says they use gas safe people and says the guarantee etc is in the post but I would have expected a copy of the paperwork left with the boiler like when I got my old one serviced. I have asked for the installer to come back when I am there and I will ask if he can service it going forward to see if I can get his details.
The boiler is in a high cupboard over the stairs. You don't have to go in the loft to get to the front panel. But you need a ladder to reach it and I have no idea how a platform could be fitted.

PigletJohn Tue 20-Dec-16 10:58:12

Boilers are supposed to be installed in accordance with Manufacturer's Instructions.

It's possible that Vaillant's document said something about access for servicing, which the installer has not followed.

Ask Vaillant if the installation contravenes the instructions. Might be worth a try. If the boiler has to be moved, I foresee arguments about fault and responsibility to pay.

YelloDraw Tue 20-Dec-16 11:02:57

'Guarantee is in the post'...!

specialsubject Tue 20-Dec-16 13:35:48

Ask for the details of the gas safe installer used. Write to the loft.company detailing what you want and when. Send with a proof of posting, keep a copy.

alltheworld Tue 20-Dec-16 21:30:50

I will ask vaillant about location. They are not massively helpful. Loft man has said if I want to move the boiler I would have to pay 3k. He is not sending the engineer back to look at water dripping from back of boiler, he says he will. He is being v evasive re installer details. He said he wouldn't install the vaillant controller but I insisted so hopefully that will be done on Friday. Should I allow him to remove the old boiler or is that a job for a specialist? He seems really annoyed that I contacted vaillant but what was I meant to do?

Whatdoiknow31 Tue 20-Dec-16 22:39:29

You should have been left the boiler manual and bench mark for the installation- this will give details (gas safe reg no) of Installer etc including what chemicals used to clean your system plus inhibitor added on completion (as well as other info, gas pressures etc) Bench Mark is a legal document I'm told.
Installer should have registered with manufacturer and building control. Ask for the building control notification number and phone up the manufacturer to make sure it has been registered.

alltheworld Tue 20-Dec-16 22:54:51

The boiler manual and benchmark have been left behind but they are blank. I keep trying to contact vaillant to find out about registration but can't get any sense out of them. Maybe the way forward is through building regs?

PigletJohn Wed 21-Dec-16 11:06:02

" He is being v evasive re installer details"

A red flag. If he had used an unqualified person he would not want to admit it.

But if and when the boiler installation was notified, the installer would become public knowledge, so there would be no point in hiding it.

Whatdoiknow31 Wed 21-Dec-16 23:13:05

report to Gas Safe then. Criminal offence to install when not qualified to do so. There's a reason for being qualified, gas boilers can be dangerous if not fitted / maintained properly!

In the meantime buy yourself a battery carbon monoxide alarm and put it near the boiler.

Do not pay the balance until resolved. He's being very shady, if it's been done by a qualified person he has nothing to hide!

alltheworld Wed 28-Dec-16 20:14:48

V sorry belated update. Chased loft man, insisted on being given boiler man details. Arranged for him to come back and fill in commissioning checklist. He got the warranty. I asked to see his gas safe card. Loft man installed controller. It appears to be working. Lesson learned is that when a job is subcontracted out drill down on the details. Many thanks to all who took the time to respond. I am also going to get a co2 monitor.

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