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Renting without a tenancy agreement

(28 Posts)
pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 08:38:11

If somebody decides to rent from a friend (friend doesn't live there but another friend shares the house) is a tenancy agreement needed? What are the tenants rights if they don't have an agreement? Also, if no agreement does the LL still have to legally provide gas and electric safety certificates (and any others that I don't know of).

In short does the LL still have legal obligations even though nothing is in writing with the tenant?

LadyStarkOfWinterfell Sun 05-Jun-16 08:41:14

Yes the landlord has all the legal obligations as they would with a tenancy agreement. Why would you rent without a tenancy agreement, either party?

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 08:46:16

Thanks for responding. I don't know the answer to your question. The response I get is "He is a mate and it will be fine"

So if the LL still has all the legal obligations why would a tenancy agreement be needed? What extra does it offer? <thicko here>

LadyStarkOfWinterfell Sun 05-Jun-16 08:51:39

I don't know all that much about it but I do know that if someone has been paying rent for an entire property then it becomes a de facto tenancy and you'd have to go to court to evict if you wanted them out.
I guess a tenancy agreement sets out both party's obligations in writing which makes things much clearer if you have to go to court. You can print them online - it is ridiculous not to.

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 08:53:22

Ok thankyou flowers

Janicejohn Sun 05-Jun-16 10:27:36

Is the landlord a housing association or a council?

LadyStarkOfWinterfell Sun 05-Jun-16 10:55:00

Obviously neither, since they are renting to a mate! How do you think a council or housing association would rent a place without a tenancy agreement?

Janicejohn Sun 05-Jun-16 10:58:54

If it's a sublet from the original tenant.

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 11:54:40

No the LL is the owner.

SauvignonPlonker Sun 05-Jun-16 13:29:53

I'm not so sure the LL would be happy with sub-letting. It's usually prohibited in the tenancy agreement. It all sounds a bit suspicious.

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 13:35:58

There is no subletting. The LL owns the house and rents it out to 2 of his friends.

NotCitrus Sun 05-Jun-16 13:54:15

If the landlord lives there then the tenants are lodgers or technically "excluded occupiers" with fewer rights than tenants. If the landlord doesn't live there then a tenancy is created if there is payment. One problem might be if payment is taken in cash with no receipt and then the owner could argue the person was just a guest and there was never any tenancy.

If money changes hands and the recipient doesn't live there, then the owner is a landlord with all the responsibilities that go with it. (IANAL, different rules in Scotland, etc).

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 14:46:23

The LL doesn't live there. He moved out and lives elsewhere so rents his house out to 2 friends.

concertplayer Sun 05-Jun-16 15:12:29

The ll whether friend or not must have gas certificate, smoke alarm
and carbon monoxide alarm .LL must also have it in writing from you
that you do not have any criminal convictions.
LL really also needs to check with mortgage/insurers that s/he can let
the property regardless of who the tenants are - it could invalidate
the insurance cover

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 15:14:40

Are they all legal requirements concert? Including the criminal convictions and re mortgage stuff?

wowfudge Sun 05-Jun-16 15:37:45

I suspect the LL doesn't have permission from either his mortgage lender or his LL and not having a written tenancy agreement is, he thinks, a way of getting round this.

I would not trust this person - does he have the correct insurance? Will he protect your deposit? Will he respect your rights as tenants? Somehow I doubt it.

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 15:40:21

I agree wow but the tenant thinks I am being ridiculous.

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 15:41:49

There is no deposit. Tenant and another person moved in and rented a room each when LL still lived there. Then LL moved out and now lives elsewhere.

concertplayer Sun 05-Jun-16 16:08:07

Yes all legal requirements There are others here who will confirm the
advice I have given you.
As the ll he must do these things.
You see it protects everyone concerned. If there were a fire his insurance
would not pay the claim if he has not sort permission to let it out.
Often it is just a box ticking exercise. If he has been a good client of theirs
they will not necessarily refuse.

concertplayer Sun 05-Jun-16 16:10:18

BTw I said nothing about remortgage. For any mortgage you must still ask
permission. They will likely charge an admin fee and tick the box

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 16:14:38

Sorry I didn't mean remortgage I meant re (about) mortgage with regards to insurance etc.

Thanks for your help flowers

specialsubject Sun 05-Jun-16 17:53:57

The landlord takes the biggest risk - the tenant may decide not to leave or not to pay rent, and without proper paperwork/legals that is even more difficult. Also if no mortgage approval or correct insurance there are huge risks.

Some unusual ideas here about the legals though! It is all explained for the tenant on

specialsubject Sun 05-Jun-16 17:56:18

Co alarm not essential unless solid fuel device, although good practice.

Criminal record check not legally required, although some tenant referencing may do. Right to rent is required. Smoke alarms required. Gas cert required.

pleaseholdyourcallisimportant Sun 05-Jun-16 18:15:06

That is interesting you say that about the LL taking the biggest risk special He already gave a months notice because he wanted to sell but didn't do anything about it so tenant hasn't been given notice after all - or rather notice was taken back. I was looking at it from just the tenants view.

wowfudge Sun 05-Jun-16 20:31:07

The LL must give two months notice so he's wrong there.

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