Can we fit 3 appliances & kitchen sink in 198cms?

[evrybuddy]

Our kitchen wall with water supply and drains is 198cms wide and there is a window in the centre of the wall (above current sink) 108 cms wide - so space of 50 cms to one side of window - 40cms to other.

Currently, we have full size wash machine and full size sink plus under sink/worktop cupboards.

We want..., wash machine, separate tumble dryer (both full size), dishwasher (could be slimline) and functional sink (for rinsing, handwashing clothes and so on) - is this feasible - and if so, how?

We don't want combined washer/dryer because we tend to use both functions at same time and close off kitchen to kill noise.

We can't fit the dryer above the washer because of the max 50cm wall next to the window.

Is it possible to get a 60cm washer, a 60cm dryer and a 45cm dishwasher PLUS a kitchen sink into a 198cm one wall arrangement?

I think the size of the sink is key - anyone come across this and solved it?

Would you recommend a particular sink or slimline dishwasher?

Opposite wall will house fridge freezer, cooker and floor cupboard.

End walls each have a door in them

[lalalonglegs]

I don't think it can be done - those measurementsl eavesdropping 33cm for a sink which is too small. Does the tumble dryer have to go on that wall?

[titchy]

Put the drier on the opposite wall - allow 60 each for drier, fridge and cooker and have a 10 cm wine rack or something between fridge and cooker.

On window wall have slimline dishwasher and washing machine and sink and a narrow floor unit to fit - maybe 40 cm?

[titchy]

Or get a narrow drier and sit on top of washing machine - this one is 50cm wide

www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/c38as/white-knight-c38as-freestanding-vented-tumble-dryer

[evrybuddy]

Thanks - it's pretty tricky!

The only 30cm sinks I've seen

www.mychoice.co.uk/smeg-alba-um30-undermounted-single-bowl-sink-30cm-stainless-steel?network=google&gclid=CJ6K1--jzMgCFWX4wgodWfID9w

are undermounted and I'm not sure how that works - in terms of under-worktop space for connections/plumbing and also the separate tap fitting on top.

The obvious solution, as you say, is move the tumble drier - either to the opposite wall (venting not possible - condenser might create humidity) or outside... garden shed maybe?

Fridge freezer unit is tall so it's not great having the cooker next to it but if we put the drier next to the fridge then it means the cooker/hob is next to the end wall at the other end - not the end of the world - but maybe a bit awkward when moving pots on the hob.

Ideally we want the tall fridge unit at one end of the kitchen wall and the cooker/hob in the middle of the remaining worktop space

Although the slimline drier looks good, in our size of kitchen we probably can't afford to sacrifice the worktop space...

It's a dilemma and frustrating - mainly because we want all the noisy machines in one room that we can close off.

I feel it has to be a tiny sink solution but I'm not sure whether that's just making a compromised kitchen - although that probably only matters if we ever have to sell up.

I think a tiny sink would be fine for us but perhaps I'm not seeing some really obvious problem!

[titchy]

We have a condenser drier and no humidity problem, although you'd probably want to keep the window open when it's on.

You'd have space for a wine rack between oven and fridge which would alleviate the heat transfer issue, and you can have the hob in the centre of the remaining worktop space. The oven can only ever be at the end, or almost next to the fridge though so will always look a bit unbalanced.

[titchy]

Ok I've got it...

How about a compact washing machine:

www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/laundry/washing-machines/zanussi-zwc1301-washing-machine-white-21795636-pdt.html

With 50cm drier, 45 cm dishwasher that gives you a whole 50cm for your sink?

[evrybuddy]

Blimey! - That's amazing - how did you find those appliances?
Appliance search expert status!

They're great ideas.

It freaks me out a bit though.

Here we are with the tiniest kitchen and now we're going to fit it out with the tiniest appliances .... and so the house got smaller and smaller until it was altogether very wee... ha ha ha.

Welcome to Lilliput!!!

It's almost worth doing just to unbalance people.

It's a good point though - that we can make everything else smaller in order to accommodate a normal-size kitchen sink or we can make the kitchen sink smaller in order to fit in normal-size everything else.

The perfect summary of the problem.

I love the small washer and drier but I thnk we would get frazzled at the more frequent small loads of washing - but then, if we got smaller clothes.....

[OnePlanOnHouzz]

You can only just squeeze standard sized appliances in - you need swing space for fridge door and a min of 150mm between wall and hob - drawn really quickly on our basics iPad software - the sink should be a single really. And the oven in a BU oven housing - but did I mention this was on basic software !! The only drawer would be under the oven ! Or you might be able to fit it so the drawer is on top then oven under ?! Depends on the manufacturer of housing and the depth of hob ! Hope it helps - imho I'd lose the TD to another spot ! Upstairs maybe ?! Maybe WM too if there's somewhere backing onto plumbing in bathroom you could tap into ? Stacked they wouldn't take up much room - and it would free up valuable cupboard space in the kitchen !!!

[Tfoot75]

Do you have enough storage space in there for a kitchen? Enough cupboards for all food, cooking equipment and plates etc? That would be my main concern. Ideally the laundry bits would be in another room if at all possible.

[howtorebuild]

Don't get a double sink or drained. You have a dishwasher and there are dish racks with trays if you need one.

[howtorebuild]

Another thought, you could get a 50cm freestanding cooker and fridge freezer too.

[Forestdreams]

I think I'd relocate the dryer. They can go anywhere - bathroom, bedroom, conservatory? We did wonder about putting ours in the under stairs cupboard at one point but we were a bit worried about fires. I think that's a better compromise than a smaller washing machine - the latter would drive me mad long term, I think. And I only caved to a tumble dryer when my eldest was 8 so I am not a lazy launderer!

You also need useable work surface in the kitchen, which for me would mean a run of at least a metre somewhere.

You can get table top tumble dryers, eg this one which would fit your 50cm width: www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Ideas-Compact-caravans-students/dp/B00B80SW3S?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
It is small enough to be stored elsewhere when not in use. However they take tiny loads and are more for occasional use or single people.

[Forestdreams]

Oh, and get a cooker and sink with 'covers' so you can convert them to extra workspace when not in use.

[Blu]

Is the cooker earning it's space? You can get a cupboard / big dawers under a hob, and have a wall mounted oven, or an eye level oven , however they are mounted, with storage underneath or above.

[evrybuddy]

WOW! @ OnePlanOnHouzz - what kind of crazy juju is this? - some sort of X-Files kitchen designing - how did you get into our house!?

That is our kitchen! Thank you - that's brilliant!

You're all right in that trying to incorporate the 'laundry' function into the kitchen is the thing that's throwing the 'kitchen' function out of whack.

There really isn't enough room for the two - but we're totally stuck with it - other than a shed in the garden on an extension lead - which we are seriusly considering - downside being that when you need a tumble drier (when it's wet) you have to walk down the wet garden to the shed.

The house itself is tiny, no structural storage, no stairs or natural nooks and crannies.

Ideally we'd separate laundry and cookery - but without compromising living space, it's really difficult.

I say that as we sit here on a 2 seater sofa, with a tumble drier next to the tv in a 10 x 10 living room - the house is that small!

Great suggestion for tops for the cooker - we have on at the moment - and it's essential with our limited worktops

We are going to have a conservatory but we're so weary of the space issues that we want to avoid putting anything kitcheny in there - we just want it to be a living/relaxing space - a total luxury of empty space with just us in it.

[Nicknamegrief]

Do you really need a dishwasher with the two of you? Personally I would rather the extra cupboard/storage space but I cook and bake a lot. Could you manage with a washer/dryer rather than separate ones?
I am sure you have considered this and wish you lots of luck, it looks very tight.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

I wouldn't get a slimline dishwasher.

We got rid of ours after 5 months, and swapped back to a full size. It was worth messing up everything else again for the functionality - the slimline just didn't fit enough in, so it felt like there was always dishes and stuff waiting to go in, and there's only 2 of us. Getting plates that fitted was hard, too, most "standard" dinner plates were slightly too big so the thingy couldn't spin and it didn't clean right.

I have a combined washer dryer now instead, which is actually fine. I can set it to wash and then dry immediately after without needing to touch it, it's got decent drying settings, and it does well. I load both functions, and then empty it once the whole load is done. It's not quite the same as running both at the same time, but it saved a lot of time and it's an easy routine to be in.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

Yes you can do it. This is a friend's rental which I don't think she'll mind me sharing as it's on a public website. It's all integrated so you can't see very much but in the middle is a fridge and at the end under the hob is an oven. Both are the width of washing machines and dryers so should fit.

Now this is the clever bit.. under the sink there is a dishwasher! It's an integrated dishdrawer apparently. I forget where from so I'll have to ask friend. I don't think they're cheap but I suppose it would be worth it if it's the only way to fit it all in. Hers is a tall one so fits a large dinner plate so she says.

I have been mining her for info because I want two of those dishwashers for my new fantasy kitchen.

I'm trying to upload the photos but I can't get it to work... the page just freezes when I try. I will try to upload photos separately.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

Sink left, dishwasher underneath, fridge, oven on right.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

Ooh it worked. Here's the dishwasher.

[LettuceLaughton]

Thing is, you need a functional kitchen and with such a small room and no overspill storage available you just can't afford all those appliances. It's not doable.

I think you really have no choice but to have electrics fitted in the shed and make it earn it's keep! A detached futility room, if you will.
Have the dryer and a full sized fridge freezer in there, a couple of the kitchen cupboards you're ripping out (with worktop, natch).


a slimline, under the counter fridge instead of a freezer combo would give a massive percentage increase in the worktop space or the option for a significant increase in cupboard space. A lot of fridge stuff really doesn't need to be available for instant access. Is find in a 'larder' fridge. Not ideal but more than workable.
With one under the counter appliance gone too you stand some chance of the kitchen being properly usable.

[OnePlanOnHouzz]

Looks like a Fisher & Paykel drawer dishwasher ... I think you need to weigh up which bits matter the most - if you've recently moved in - is there a floor plan image anywhere ?! Maybe upload it for the Mumsnet treatment ?

[Forestdreams]

Unlike Anchor we were happy with our slimline dishwasher until our eldest was about a year old.

Do you have an airing cupboard? How do you feel about doing without a tumble dryer?

[LettuceLaughton]

Oh, missed the bit about the conservatory!

Right, well, couldn't you revise the extension plans to include a brick built sunroom with a separate futility cupboard room for the laundry stuff and a wee bit of extra storage? I suppose, really, you need every inch of shed space you have as it is, without giving it over to appliances.

[LettuceLaughton]

Like this sort of thing, I mean. Not a full depth section of your available extension space, It'd be a shame to miss all that light!