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Is 810mm two small for a corner kitchen cabinet

(23 Posts)
kah22 Sun 16-Nov-14 13:37:00

I am in the planing process of turning a bedroom/ensuite into a kitchen diner area. My basic dimensions are: 4540mm x 5800mm

Ideas change and my thoughts at the moment would be to have a run of cabinets/work surfaces across the back wall which would include the sink at one side of the run and a built in double oven at the end of the run. I would propose to have an island which would house my hob. I would also like to have a corner pantry. So far so good

Ideally I would like the pantry to be at the left side of the back wall, beside the sink, in broad strokes I would prefer to have pantry …sink …workspace …oven.

The other wall is my problem, it has a window the end of which is 1450mm from the back wall. My plan had been to place the fridge/freezer to the side of the pantry, so you would have window…fridge/freezer…corner pantry. However, with the width of the freezer been 540mm that leaves me with about 810mm for the corner pantry and I’m wondering if that is too small to act as an effective corner pantry?

As I’m decommissioning my original kitchen, that will become a utility room, and as it already has cupboards I do have space where I can store items that won’t be used on a regualar basis. One last thought while I'm visiting B&Q, IKEA and making use of their design facilities, and taking a look around bespoke kitchen showroom I would plan to have the work carried out by a local kitchen manufacture in my area. It's ideas I'm chasing at the moment.

wowfudge Mon 17-Nov-14 09:52:44

Hi - you've provided lots of info, but I can't quite picture it; sorry. Two things spring to mind: 1) I wouldn't put anything tall directly on either side of a window because it restricts the light coming into the room. This would be at right angles to your run of pantry-sink-workspace-oven as I understand it, making it pretty dark around the sink; 2) putting the sink under the window is more usual than facing a blank wall and is what I think a lot of people expect, certainly in the UK. Is that not an option? Could you post a photo or diagram of the room and your proposed layout?

I'm thinking, sink under window with workspace either side and have the pantry in the opposite corner to where you are thinking of now, with f/freezer next to that and oven somewhere against the wall at right angles to the window, so closer to external wall and easier to vent extractor hood to outside. Without knowing where your doors are, or even what walls are extermal, not sure if that would work.

PigletJohn Mon 17-Nov-14 12:37:25

I saw a very nice pantry unit, 1 metre each way to go in a corner, sides 600mm each to fit against adjoining worktops and units, but double doors on a diagonal, on the hypotenuse, so you could actually step inside. Lots of shelves of various sizes inside.

kah22 Mon 17-Nov-14 18:07:48

Hi wowfudge, let’s see if we can tighten up on the information. In my attempt to keep my post as concise as possible I did keep back some pretty important information, I’ll include as much as I can now.

You say that you wouldn’t put anything tall directly on either side of a window because it restricts the light coming into the room because this would be at right angles to your run of pantry-sink-workspace-oven making it pretty dark around the sink. I see your point and my plans would have dealt with that. You were also concerned about placing the sink against a blank wall, again I see you point. Again I had that under control. My apologies for not mentioning it in my original post.

Let me digress for a moment. The diagram I am showing was drawn by my architect, so measurements are accurate. He suggested several ideas but none of them are really interesting me. A main suggestion was knocking a wall down between the new kitchen and my existing living room. I’m not too keen on that because I’m living in a 60’s house and the living room is quite small as it is and it would effectively have become no more than a big back hall!

The architect also suggested blocking the existing entrance from my sitting room into the new kitchen (it was a bedroom previously) to allow for the run of work surfaces that you see in his diagram. In addition to blocking up a door I would have had to raise the window in the diagram by about two brick. That would have looked odd as it sits beside a large bay window

In order to avoid creating a new entrance, blocking up an existing door, and raising and replacing a window, I’ve suggested the main run across the back wall, supplemented by an island as explained in my original post

So to address your concern. At the moment I’m inclined to knock out a new window where the sink will be. (On the diagram posted that would be roughly where the island walkway is marked.) Not only will it give me light but it will open up a view of an old Cathedral which lies on an opposite hill to me! There would be no ecstatic advantage in moving the sink up the run because if I were to knock out a window there it would be looking straight into a housing estate. You will also see that the architect included bifold doors. Again I’m not to keen on them if only because in Ireland we’d be lucky to have them fully open four or five times a year!! Instead I’m opting for three sliding doors taking up a space of about 10 ft. I would hope that this would effectively become my back door.

Have I explained things any better and yes please feel free to comment on my overall plan.

kah22 Mon 17-Nov-14 18:14:55

Opps wrong img! This is what I should have posted

RaisingSteam Mon 17-Nov-14 21:38:04

Would a layout like this (or its mirror image) suit your room? (hover over the picture and it changes to the plan view). Would you want an island that big with the sink in as well as the hob, or do you still want to fit in a sofa?

Also yow about a pantry the other side of the existing window (chimney breast side)?

kah22 Tue 18-Nov-14 00:20:10

That's a great piece of software thanks, I think it will help me think more logically.

From my own perspective I don't want a sink in the island, unless you're a super tidy person (I'm not!!) it will become a collection point for all things dirty.

Would I want an island that long. Don't know I don't see any measurments.

A pantry on the other side of the window? Hadn't thought of that must get my inch tape out!

Certainly this post has shown me a different way to think about my layout. To date I was just thinking 'work triangle' and hadn't really been aware of 'zone layouts,' until a few days ago. Must do some reading on the topic.

As always thanks for your input.


OnePlanOnHouzz Tue 18-Nov-14 11:11:52

Ah - this is the one I did some sketches for on the other site ?! Still not decided ?
Do the company you are buying from not offer a design service ?!

wowfudge Tue 18-Nov-14 11:33:03

I still can't get my head round this, sorry, because the architect's diagram shows a proposed layout rather than the current one. Is the existing window the one shown at the bottom of the architect's diagram? And the wall you refer to as the back wall the long wall which shows a sofa against part of it? Where is the doorway into the room? Am I being dense??

Consider taking wall units all the way up to the ceiling for extra storage - plus you don't have to clean the tops of the units. Further to your comment about the sink area, if you are putting in a new kitchen, consider getting a dishwasher. Quite apart from their superior cleaning (much hotter water than you would use by hand), they provide somewhere to store dirty dishes, etc out of sight.

kah22 Tue 18-Nov-14 20:08:45

OnePlan, yes that was me on Huzz, did you attach some sketches? I don't see them. This is the first time I've ever put in a kitchen (my mum and sister done the last one about 30 years ago!!) and at 60 plus it will probably be my last so I'm just trying to get as much information as possible before I go laying out all the cash. If you have any sketches I really would like to see them.

OnePlanOnHouzz Tue 18-Nov-14 20:26:04

It was on the previous post over on the other site - the one showing the architect drawings ! I did a few ideas roughly but only posted one I think ? Called it option 4 ? As you'd posted 1,2and your least favourite no.3 !
Think it was double pantry, FF, ovens, the drawers and hob with island opposite sliding doors ... Think the island could be bigger than I drew - but for some reason I put fireside chairs in ?! Think it might have been in your brief ?! I'll see if the sketch is saved in my photos ?! Nope - it's gone ! N
I've added one here - it's not yours - but something similar I re gigged for someone else !

OnePlanOnHouzz Tue 18-Nov-14 20:35:42

Found it !

kah22 Tue 18-Nov-14 20:52:34

wowfudge: First things first thanks for your patience, hope this clears things up for you.

The drawing you see was a proposed layout that my architect gave me. It is not a layout I like and the only reason it is there is to show, in scale, the area I have to work with.

Back to the image. At the top of the image is a proposed set of bifold doors, they’re not IMHO practical for Irish weather!! I’m opting for a ten ft. sliding door, broke into three sections.

You are right, the bottom of the image shows a standard bedroom type window. My architect had proposed removing and replacing it by a smaller typical kitchen window to facilitate a counter surface. Because that window faces the front of the house and would be out of alignment with my large bay window I thought it wasn’t worth it.

The left side of the image shows what I call the ‘back wall.’ Currently it is a straight redbrick wall. I’m proposing putting a window into it about a meter in from the front of the house. My reason for placing the window there and not in the centre of the wall is because it will give me a great view of an old Cathedral, any further up and I’m just looking into houses!

The doorway into the room is not shown but is at the bottom right, (the hob is there now). That door was the link between my original sitting room and a disabled facility which was built some years back. The reason the door is not shown is because the architect had suggested closing it off and running my work surfaces up from there to the back wall. He had also suggested knocking a new entrance into the new kitchen via my current living room, it’s where the table and chairs are.

I felt, and I think quite rightly, that blocking up one door, creating another, removing one window and replacing it with another added nothing but expense to the proposed project and I couldn’t see what I’d get in return.

Originally I was only looking at work triangles but now thanks to RaisingSteam the idea of kitchen zones are making things that little bit clearer for me

I will of course be moving my dishwasher to the new kitchen and would propose to put it to the right of the proposed sink

As always many thanks for your input.

OnePlanOnHouzz Tue 18-Nov-14 20:58:04

Have made the island larger on this one - and on the one with green - reduced the depth to add a fireside chair and side table !

RaisingSteam Wed 19-Nov-14 00:00:14

The zone thing is quite good for getting things in their right relationship to each other, you don't have to copy the layout slavishly.

For example as here: double pantry and fridge, dishwasher and tableware are all at the end of the room nearer the table. you can for instance lay the table for breakfast or make coffee all from that end. The other side of the sink is the messy work area. Your cathedral view is not in front of the sink (believe me once you have a dishwasher you never stand in front of a sink) but could be a prep/ working area. Behind you is the hob/island (the island shape needs improving but you get the idea) with a bigger prep area for say baking, or space for serving out onto.

RaisingSteam Wed 19-Nov-14 00:07:24

better view: you have room for a sofa/bookcases etc at bottom of room. What's in the chimney breast?

RaisingSteam Wed 19-Nov-14 00:09:10

By the way if the hob is on the island what are you doing about extraction?

kah22 Sun 23-Nov-14 15:14:59

Sorry for not replying sooner.

Rising Steam: I would intend to have an extractor coming down from the ceiling. There should be no difficulty there as it's just single story. However, I am beginning to look at the possibility of placing the hob on the back wall with the other items. It might look better and less cluttered. What do you think?

PigletJohn Sun 23-Nov-14 15:32:43

hob on an external wall makes it much easier and cheaper to arrange extraction.

RaisingSteam Sun 23-Nov-14 22:54:03

oh hello! If putting the hob on the back wall I'd have ovens under the counter/in the island so you get a bit of extra worktop space. It would need to be well to the left to miss the window (but you can tweak where the window is of course). Indeed much easier with extraction. You have the island for extra prep space but don't put the sink and hob too close nevertheless, this is the space I use most in my kitchen.

Also maybe narrow your larder (the furthest right unit) to one tall unit: the island gives you lots of food storage potential with good pull-outs, so the sink can be a little further right.

OnePlanOnHouzz Thu 27-Nov-14 18:42:29

Did my posts not show up?

Marmitelover55 Thu 27-Nov-14 19:14:52

I like your ideas OnePlanOnHouzz smile, but I think it would be good to have the bifold doors at the end of the dining area rather than the kitchen..

OnePlanOnHouzz Thu 27-Nov-14 22:07:28

Maybe in both ? I think there's fantastic views from all accounts ! Sounds like a lovely location !!

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