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Will someone talk to me about doing my own written householder planning appeal please?

(25 Posts)
Candustpleasefuckoff Sun 28-Sep-14 07:26:55

We have been refused our 2 storey side extension on our end terrace.
The council have advised the best next step is to appeal the original plans rather than amend them.
Am I able do this myself? And if it is not beyond me, how much does it cost? I can't see an actual amount except for mention that other parties may claim costs against you. Thanks

Furball Sun 28-Sep-14 14:07:30

Do you know why it was refused?

I don't know anything about costs etc but it says here that the appeal is free and you just pay your own expenses

Candustpleasefuckoff Sun 28-Sep-14 18:02:49

The local planners haven't written their report yet, but basically they feel it will impact on the amenity of our neighbours. Although we are an end terrace there begins another group of terraces 7m from our current garage wall (we are extending above the garage to create a 3rd bedroom). However, the lady who lives in the house 7m away, did not object and was surprised when I told her we have had permission refused as she feels it will not cause overshadowing or have a big impact on her amenity. She is already looking at our garage wall, from her side windows, it will be just be a slightly taller wall and not full height.

Furball Sun 28-Sep-14 19:26:22

It's been refused yet the planner hasn't written their report yet? - shock

I would go to the head of the planning dept and ask them whats going on as this is not on. Usually they issue a report/reason WHY it is refused. It is usually listed on the refusal notice. Have they done a site visit?

I would also contact your local authority Borough Councillor and ask them their views on this situation and do they think it appropriate that this is the system and what can they do to help you.

Nepotism Mon 29-Sep-14 13:14:31

I would also ask your neighbour if she minds writing in support of your application.

Candustpleasefuckoff Mon 29-Sep-14 13:21:50

They always give you prior warning of their decision, so I know it is a refusal from a telephone conversation, but the planning officer has yet to write the report and issue a formal notice of refusal, so she just was giving me a heads up really. But she said, I will prob have a good chance with an appeal. Which makes me think just bloody give it to me in the first place!

Seeline Mon 29-Sep-14 13:27:35

If the Council haven't written a report yet, or a decision issued, you have not yet been refused permission. The officer will write a report assessing your proposal against the Council's policies (which you should be able to see on their web site. Once the application is refused you will be sent a decision notice setting out the reasons why permission was refused, which will probably make reference to those policies. You should also be able to see the report via the Council web site.
House holder appeals have to be submitted to the Planning Inspectorate within 12 weeks of the application being refused. Look at the Planning Portal website for advice on what this involves. It is entirely possible for you to do the appeal yourself, and there is no fee as such to make the appeal.
Your appeal should cover your responses to the statements made in the Officers report and the refusal reasons.
If I have understood your description correctly, your two storey extension would be 7m away from the side elevation of your neighbour? Will it project forwards or backwards of the front or rear of their property? If not, most Council expect a 1m separation between the flank wall of an extension and the property boundary, giving a minimum 2m separation between properties.

Seeline Mon 29-Sep-14 13:28:54 Link to planning portal appeals site.

Candustpleasefuckoff Mon 29-Sep-14 14:46:30

Yes, the side wall of our extension would be 7m from the side wall of our neighbour. We are extending right up to the boundary, but the council says this was deemed ok as there is no chance of a visual terracing effect. The boundary is a shared driveway. So our garage sits on one half of the driveway, and the other half is just their Tarmac. They do not have a garage on their half.

Seeline Mon 29-Sep-14 16:08:36

It seems very strange to claim that this would impact on the neighbours amenity if they have no objection about building up to the boundary. Will the extension be in line with the front and rear walls of your property or will there be a projection one way or the other?

Candustpleasefuckoff Mon 29-Sep-14 16:16:23

The extension will be in line with the rear walls of our property (so back garden) but set back from the front by about 1m. We are extending the footprint of the garage forwards, to allow us to have an internal door connecting the former garage with the rest of the house.

Seeline Mon 29-Sep-14 16:21:03

I cannot see why the extension would have a detrimental effect on your neighbour based on what you have told me. I would ring the case officer again and ask them to explain exactly what the problem is. Have there been any other similar extensions to properties in the road that you cold point out to the officer?
Unless there is something unique to your site/proposal I would have thought it would be difficult to refuse. If they do, I would think that it would certainly be worth appealing.

Candustpleasefuckoff Mon 29-Sep-14 16:25:54

Here's a picture of our plot. We are number 9. The council are concerned about the impact on number 7. As far as I know, they are not bothered about number 17. Although number 17 complained.

Candustpleasefuckoff Mon 29-Sep-14 16:31:35

Sorry the numbers are hard to see. Our property has a red outline. Number 7 is above it on the left and number 17 has the garden which backs onto our garage. So next to number 7

Seeline Mon 29-Sep-14 16:38:18

Ah OK - a more unusual relationship. I assume that as no. 7 doesn't have a rear outlook, the main windows are in the flank elevation? So bedrooms and living rooms have windows in the wall facing your property?
The separation distances between the flank wall of the extension and the principal windows in no.7 are probably not considered great enough leading to a loss of outlook/privacy. However, I would have thought that the orientation of your property would probably offset that impact to some degree.

Candustpleasefuckoff Mon 29-Sep-14 16:45:40

No, the main windows for number 7 face out the front of her property. It is a one bed house. There is a lounge downstairs, with the main window facing out front looking at the road and a smaller side window in the flank wall facing our house. Behind that is her kitchen which admittedly only has one window and this faces our garage wall. Above her lounge is her bedroom, again the main window faces the street and she has a smaller side window in the flank wall facing our house - she says she never looks out of this window. And behind her bedroom and above her kitchen is her bathroom - so this has an obscured glazed window facing our property.
I think the kitchen window is the main sticking point, but she is already looking at our garage wall 7m away, it'll just be taller (but not full height).

Furball Tue 30-Sep-14 07:04:40

I don't quite know why it's a refuse especially if no 17 is not taken into consideration.

You need to speak to the planner and find out exactly what the reason is and why they feel it will impact on the neighbours. Ask them to actually come out and see it in the flesh. Especially as there is a building already there.

Seeline Tue 30-Sep-14 09:03:11

From the description you have given, I really can't see a problem. definitely speak to the planner again, ask specifically which policies the proposal conflicts with. If they do refuse, I would definitely appeal.

Candustpleasefuckoff Wed 01-Oct-14 06:45:58

Thanks very much for all your help furball and Seeline. I will speak to the planners again.

Candustpleasefuckoff Wed 19-Nov-14 10:32:46

I have submitted my written appeal and the inspector is doing a site visit next week! Not feeling v hopeful though....

Seeline Wed 19-Nov-14 10:37:01

Well done candust - I wouldn't fancy doing my own! Hope the Inspector's visit goes well. Remember he can't take evidence on site visits, so unless he asks a specific question, he won't want you waffling on grin Sometimes they can seem quite rude and stand offish, but that is normal. As it's a householder appeal, you should have the result fairly soon after. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Candustpleasefuckoff Wed 19-Nov-14 10:56:17

Thanks seeline

Candustpleasefuckoff Thu 18-Dec-14 11:46:53

Our appeal was dismissed.
I have pasted the content below.
1. The appeal is dismissed.
Main Issue
2. The main issue is the effect of the proposed development on the living conditions of the occupiers of No 7 in respect of outlook.
3. The appeal site is within an estate of modern houses which are a mix of sizes and types. The appeal property is a house with parking to the front, a small front garden and a larger garden to the rear. The proposed development would involve the loss of the garage and its replacement with a two storey side extension.
4. The appeal site is adjacent to No 7 to the north. This is one of a pair of small single bedroom semi-detached properties on the corner of ' Avenue and ' Road. No 7 has a very small front garden and also a small garden to the south which serves as the main amenity area of that property. A driveway to the south of the garden forms the boundary with No 9. The east boundary of the side garden comprises a very tall brick wall. Whilst the garden is open to the pavement, as a result of its small size and boundary at the rear, it feels slightly enclosed. The garage is visible on the boundary with No 7. It is a single-storey structure with a pitched roof and due to its fairly low height and roof design it is not overly prominent.
5. There are small windows on the ground and first-floor of No 7, which face towards the garage and parking area of No 9. Two of these windows serve a bedroom and the lounge, although there are also larger windows in these rooms which face towards The avenue. One of the south facing windows is in the kitchen, this serves as the only window for this room.
The replacement two-storey extension would be much taller than the existing garage. Due to the increase in height and bulk of the two story extension coupled with its position immediately adjoining the boundary with No 7, this would result in a significantly increased sense of enclosure. This would be detrimental to the occupiers of No 7 particularly when within the garden. Moreover, the extension would also be seen from the kitchen, bedroom and lounge. I accept the secondary nature of these windows; nevertheless the proposed scheme would appear overbearing and dominant to the occupiers of No 7 when seen from these rooms.
7. I note that the extension would result in the removal of the windows at No 9 which face towards the garden of No 7, however these serve hallways and stairs and therefore I do not accept that any gain in a reduction of overlooking would outweigh the harm caused.
8. For the reasons given above, I conclude that the proposed development would cause harm to the living conditions of the occupiers of No 7 Avenue in respect of outlook. It would be in conflict with policies ENV1, ENV5 and ENV6 of the East Herts Local Plan Second Review 2007 which amongst other things seeks new development that respects the amenity of occupiers of neighbouring buildings.
Other matters
9. The council do not object to the scheme in respect of the effect on the character and appearance of the host property and I agree that the proposed design would be acceptable in this regard. The single story rear extension would not be highly visible from the rear of adjoining properties and in this way it would not have a negative impact. Although the garage would be replaced, one additional parking space would be provided and this would be acceptable. However, these matters are not sufficient to outweigh the harm I have found.
10. For the above reasons and having regard to all other matters raised including the concerns of neighbours in relation to boundaries, the appeal should be dismissed.

Apparently the planning officer has only been doing the job for 2 years and is much below the national average for allowing appeals.

Wildidle Fri 19-Dec-14 12:25:46

Two years is plenty of experience for a householder application.

mandy214 Fri 19-Dec-14 15:12:21

I think that's quite a clear no. If you need a 3rd bedroom, would you consider having the converted garage (single storey) as a bedroom?

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