Argggggh! Why do my tradesmen need so much handholding?

[wonkylegs]

I have had some fab trades in for our house renovations but the current lot that are un are like supervising children it's driving me mad.
They are doing great quality work but they can't plan anything or decide anything themselves.
I've given them full specs & drawings to work with but as usual expect them to plan Order of work & health & safety (in this case scaffolding requirements) themselves. Every single day I get met with blank stares and I dunno to questions like - what rooms do you think you need to be in today? Would you like a cup of tea/coffee? Thank god I'm paying fixed rate rather than hourly as they definitely aren't the most efficient.
I've also had a spate of let downs from plumbers to fit the bathrooms - my usual one is dealing with a family tragedy but trying to get a replacement is turning into a bit of a nightmare.
I do this for a living but in my own house when I can't escape it's driving me more nuts than usual. I also think the guys I deal with on commercial contracts are just a bit more organised than domestic trades.
Sorry it's just a moan as I'm silently venting rather than screaming at them.

[MummytoMog]

Vent away - mine seemed incapable of noticing basic things, like if they moved an internal wall or door, they might need to move the pipework for the basin that would then be completely blocked by it. It was like they had total tunnel vision and all they could see was 'we need to install x,y and z' and didn't worry at all about whether or not x,y and z would interact together and we would be able (for example) to actually sit on the loo that they put plumbing in place for on top of the basin plumbing. We had a particularly bad run with plumbers. I don't get it at all, plumbing is (apart from central heating) a relatively simple process, sometimes involving a bit of trial and error, but basically pretty easy to get right. I had to completely replumb our en suite after the plumber had been, the only bit he didn't leave actively leaking was the sink. And even then he didn't put any silicone between the sink and the washbasin, which we only noticed when the wood swelled up.

Sorry, hijacked there. Let's just say I'm very familiar with the dumb looks and the lack of self-starting.

[PigletJohn]

is anyone being paid to act as site manager or project manager?

If not, there isn't one. Hence there is nobody doing that job.

[wonkylegs]

Piglet - I'm an architect & I am site managing but this goes beyond managing, (believe me I have 10yrs experience of far more complex projects than my house renovation) this is the need to tell them every single movement they do in a day. I swear I'm at the point I almost need to check they need the toilet.
Every morning they arrive and sit in their van until I go out and get them despite being told just to get on, they have keys & can access everywhere but don't move until I go out.
I organised the scaffolding & got them to erect exactly what was needed but just wanted to check they were happy (as they were using it) that they had all the access they needed - um dunno? Was the answer.
I have to tell them every morning exactly what I want them to do even though I have walked them through the job everyday and asked them as 'professionals' as their opinion on the best programme of work for them. (They don't have one)
Even simple things like would you like tea/coffee is answered with a dunno. I've taken to just making them the same as I have and leaving it on the side for them. If I wasn't here I think they'd just sit in the van all day, until told otherwise.
The only saving grace is the quality of their work is brilliant. I may strangle this lot before they finish though!
The plumbing is another issue in that I just can't get people out to quote, or if they do come out they never seem to actually do the quote.
I'm not sure what the issue is - I know it's not the worlds easiest job due to the age of the house & some interesting past plumbing arrangements but it's not exactly difficult either. (Fitting 2 medium sized bathrooms)
All I want is a plumber to fit & a tiler to tile, I'm supplying everything else. I had it all sorted with the guy who fitted our CH at the end of last year but he's not working at the moment for personal reasons so I've had to search again.
I think I've got a quote possibly finally coming by then end of today so fingers crossed I may be able to finally get moving with this.

[MummytoMog]

There certainly was someone supposed to be supervising for me. He just didn't do it enough because he took on too much work and was too busy elsewhere and then fell out with all of his sub-contractors and hasn't paid his VAT bill

[HaveToWearHeels]

I feel your pain on the getting someone out to do the work in the first place and then for someone to actually do the job properly. I wish I had a fiver for every hour I have sat in waiting for trades people to turn up, then if they do you never get a quote.
Last plumber we used was to replace a small cloakroom basin with a vanity unit. He removed the tiles, placed the basin in the unit but couldn't get it level. Told DH to tell him it was OK but to make sure the tiling was straight, if he couldn't do that not to bother I would tile myself.
Come home to very obvious wonky tiling. Of course I ranted at DH (who doesn't have a clue and has no "eye"). Apparently the plumber offered to come back and rehang the mirror over the basin wonky, to create a optical illusion wtf !

[livingthegoodlife]

my plumber today installed a sink with 3 chips. he didnt tell me it was chipped. so now he is having to come back and remove sink, tap, waste etc so it can be sent back and a new one fitted. did he think they were a design feature?! what a waste of time.

i am also having massive trouble gets plumbers to quote for my bathrooms. i need 2 doing and a cloakroom. arrgh!

[wigglybeezer]

Havetowearheels, I have just had a similar situation with a structural steel beam! The bricklayers measured up from my slightly sloping floor ( old house) to place it and obviously never went near it with a spirit level, the problem was only noticed when the joiners tried and failed to line up the new suspended ceiling with it.

[HaveToWearHeels]

sat here now waiting fr an electrician who was supposed to be here at 11 to give a quote, only spoke to him yesterday, suring he can't have forgotton !

[MrsTaraPlumbing]

Understand you are just venting so letting you know I'm listening.

BTW, you could post on UKPF for a plumber - there are some excellent guys on there:
www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/

And dare i suggest If you are in Kent you can contact Tara Plumbing.

[TrevaronGirl]

I think you are very brave wonkylegs and just wanted to offer my sympathy.

From my dealings with various contractors (I'm also an architect but don't have quite your experience) I have come to the conclusion that the biggest single improvement the building industry could make (apart from recruiting many more trades staff) is to instil in everyone on site that almost any building project is a 'team' effort in the truest sense of the word. It seems that far too often one trade will ignore their effect on other trades.

(This coming from someone who usually winces at the 'T' word as it is so often misused by administration and general office people).

[Selks]

They can be a nightmare sometimes. My biggest gripe with my lot when I was renovating my house post flooding last year was that if something unexpectedly couldn't be done the way we had previously agreed, they just went ahead and did what they thought might be ok (but wasn't) instead of phoning and discussing it with me - hence sink put in with draining board on the wrong side, and one kitchen cupboard that won't open properly due to the handle of another being in the way etc etc.....Gahh!

[wonkylegs]

Thanks for the sympathetic ears.
Tara - unfortunately i'm up north or i'd give you a call, I will have a look on UKPF.
To be fair we've not had a bad run with trades, it was always going to be difficult to live in the house & do the work but we had little choice. When its all done it'll be worth it I just can't wait for it all to be done and to get back a house which doesn't have random blokes in it and requires constant cleaning.
I'm quite strict about not accepting things that aren't right, I only pay final instalments once its perfect, but I know it can sometimes be a battle to get to that point!

[TheTradeForce]

The Trade Force: Ex-military trades people you can trust!

We have over 120 ex-military trades people across the UK. Give us a try:

//www.thetradeforce.co.uk

[middleagedspread]

We've been very lucky so far, our builder is fantastic. But yesterday I spent hours arguing with the tv ariel chap; I don't want a telly on the wall & I don't want one in the kitchen. Nor do I want Sky. It would appear that I'm the only person in the world who only has one tv & no desire for more.