Extension - nasty surprise in final bill!

[CatsAreLikeChocolates]

Apologies in advance if this is epic, but I need some hand holding. I was going to post is AIBU but feeling too much of a wuss. Well, here goes...

We wanted a first floor extension, loft conversion, new roof and garage for our knackered period house. We got three quotes for £36k + VAT, £38.5k + VAT and £40K + VAT. None of them included bathroom fittings, showers, electric garage doors, etc, which were to be supplied by us. The architect said at the time of doing the plans that he thought it would cost around £50k including absolutely everything so these all seemed about right. I took an irrational strong dislike to the cheapest guy, but had a good feeling about the middle guy. DH's exact phrase was "Let's not pay extra for your funny feelings" so I called the middle guy and told him the situation. He agreed on the phone to do it for £36.5K + VAT and could start very soon as he'd had a cancelation. So all was agreed, rooms were cleared in readiness, blah, blah, blah...

So in early May, as agreed, the middle guy (let's call him Bob) turns up. On day ! he says "I shouldn't have agreed to drop the price as it's now going to be really tight. I'll do my best for you but it might end up costing a bit more". DH was all for slinging him out on his ear, which with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight is just what we should've done. However, I'd packed and psyched my self for this job to be done in May, June & July so wanted to salvage things. So I said, "Well the most we can possibly go up to would be your original price, as per your written quotation, of £38.5K + VAT and if you can promise there will be no sting in the tail you can start". He agreed so off we went.

The months rolled by and everything seemed to be taking forever. Bob the builder was constantly nagging for money to pay for materials etc, and telling us that he didn't stand to make enough from this job and should really walk off. Needless to say this freaked me right out and so we kept giving him small payments in an attempt to avoid being left with an unfinished building site. In August he announced that the building was essentially complete and so they were off to start the next job. The tillers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc would come to finish off. I was horrified and begged him to stay and complete what he'd started. Suffice to say off he went!

A couple of weeks later we hadn't seen any trades despite lots of phone calls from us. Out of the blue Bob turns up on the doorstep asking for money as "I've had no wages for the last 2 weeks". I pointed out that he/his trades hadn't done any work for us in that time and told him that we were not going to pay him any more until the job was finished. (According to his written quote we still owed him £7.5k at this point).

As if by magic tradesmen appeared and painfully slowly the extension began to become habitable. We still need tiles fitted in the bathroom and a new door hanging, but it feels like we're nearly there at last! Last week I got a letter in the post from Bob the builder for a final bill. Mysteriously the cost of the job has now risen to £44.5k + VAT, (plus some extras that he had agreed to like building fitted wardrobes etc which were billed for separately). I felt physically sick. I called him and he said that his original letter was an estimate not a quotation and if we didn't pay it he would take us to court.

This morning the building inspector called and has refused to issue a completion certificate as we have not replaced all our doors with fire doors, as specified in the plans. I hadn't noticed this but then I'm not a bloody builder . I called the lovely Bob again and he said he could fit them but I'd have to pay extra. I don't think I should have to pay extra for something that was in the plans and seems to be essential to get the finished job signed off. He told me to finish the job myself and pay up or else. What a charmer!

So, now I'm hoping that the nest of vipers will contain words of wisdom and sympathy. I didn't want it to be like this. I'm worried about what he will do next. I just want my house back and can't afford the suddenly increased price. I have drafted a letter to him saying all this, and tried to talk to him about this in a calm and reasonable way... which didn't exactly go well. Suffice to say, we're off his Christmas card list! His argument is that it cost him more than he thought it would, which is my problem not his. Please tell me he's not right...

Have one of these with me as a reward for even getting to the bottom of this huge OP . All pearls of wisdom gratefully received.

[LaVitaBellissima]

If you are in SW London and his name is actually Bob, I think he used to be our builder!

Do not pay!

[foxy6]

hi i didn't like to read and run but don't really have any advice other that if he hasn't completed the work he was supposed to how can he expect you to pay. he doesn't sound like a polite person and i personally wouldn't worry about him taking you to court for the money as he hasn't finished the job as he was supposed to i should imagine he would get thrown out and told to finish before expecting payment.

[CatsAreLikeChocolates]

Thanks for replying. We're not in the SE and his name's sadly not really Bob the Builder. I almost wish it was though!

My problem is knowing how much to pay him. I have finance arranged based on his initial estimate and don't think it's fair that he can suddenly say he wants more at the end. Just wondering if anyone knows where we stand legally? I never thought I'd be the kind of person who'd ever get sued! Also freaking out a bit about what he'll do next. He's turned pretty nasty over this. God, I need more wine!

But thanks for your replies.

[IAmOwedMoney]

It may be a little late, this may help moving forwards www.channel4.com/4homes/how-to/diy/how-to-find-a-good-builder-08-05-27/display/page/2

[WhoNickedMyName]

Well first of all, DO NOT GIVE HIM A PENNY MORE!

How much exactly have you given him so far? You've got a copy of his first quote, has he put anything else in writing? Him telling you he didn't stand to make enough from this job and should really walk off isn't going to do him much good in court.

Personally I would call his bluff and tell him he will have to take me to court to get any more money off me. I wouldn't acknowledge any more correspondence from him, don't answer his calls, chalk it up to experience and find someone else to finish the job.

[WhoNickedMyName]

Oh and if there is such a thing as Trip Advisor for builders - make sure you leave him a review

[nkf]

He won't finish the job properly. Give him a chance to do the.job ie you will sue for breach of contract. He is bullying you, hoping you will throw money at the problem. Good luck.

[wonkylegs]

Do you have an actual contract?
If so then this will give you guidance in what to do at this point. He is essentially in breach of contract if he hasn't completed the work as specified in the contract.
Standard Contracts have clauses for complaints, withholding payment , arbitration etc
If you don't have a formal contract then you are on shakier ground but so is your builder.
Go back and check what you do have in writing. If he is in breach of what you have in writing then I would state what you are paying / not paying and why in writing and send it to him by recorded delivery.
He will then have to chase you on the courts for any excess which he will have to prove he is owed. This will be difficult/impossible of he has no written contract and hasn't done the work.

[LadyMercy]

Cats, what does the origional peice of paper say, quote or estimate?

[snowman1]

Did you have a contract for the original work? Apart from the fire doors, is there any other element of the work which requires completing? You will need to go through everything and draw up a "snagging list" in writing, which identifies jobs that require completion before you settle the final amount. Advise him that you require a building regs cert in order to consider the job completed. Keep a copy and if it ever goes to court, you can say you would like to pay him but he has not completed his end of the contract.

Secondly, apart from the wardrobes, has he supplied you with anything in writing to identify why the sum has increased? Have you changed your mind about anything, eg. decided to have spot lights rather than pendants, or changed the spec? (Apart from the wardrobes and things, you mentioned already?)
I would do a snagging list and letter to cover your back, do not give him any more cash until these items are complete. when these are done, only pay up to what the original amount until he can identify why you need to pay more than you contractually agreed. I would also say if he has been particularly slow there are usually clawback clauses in these contracts for when work is not completed on time. If he cannot, then you may need to call his bluff and tell him to sue you!

[nicelyneurotic]

Citizens advice have some information about disputes with builders.

One of the points says that work should be carried out to a satisfactory standard - usually meaning it should comply with the standard building regs.

Once it complies you can settle the bill. However the extra costs must be justified. Agree that you shouldn't pay him a penny more until he completes the work.

Have you been paying him in cash?

[CatsAreLikeChocolates]

Sorry, been to collect DC from school...

Oh you guys have made me feel so much better already! We didn't have a formal contract. Feel pretty stupid saying that now, but he sent us a letter tendering for the job, which detailed the total costs and what he would be doing eg re-roofing in composite slate, rendering to match existing as per plans, etc, as well as what we would supply eg shower, loo, light fittings, garage door, etc. We wrote back accepting his quote and asking him to call us to agree a start date. We didn't think to get anything else in writing from him. He told us verbally that it would take 12-14 weeks, but I have no proof of this conversation. We've been paying him via bank transfer so all documented on our statements. He has correctly deducted these from the amount we owe him in the most recent letter he sent, but the problem is that he has just magically added £6K + VAT to the basic price and then added all the agreed extras on top of that. He gives no explanation in his letter for this. When I called him he explained it by saying that all the raw materials had cost him more. I feel like that's not really my fault so why should we have to pay more than we agreed?

He claims that his letter was an estimate rather than a quotation, and having been on the CAB website this seems critical. The actual letter contains neither of these words. I've told him that we won't pay him another penny til it's complete and meets building regs. He's pretty arsey and has threatened to "sue the ass off us". What a delightful character! I'm just hoping that he's bluffing...

Meanwhile, I've just had a call from his tiler to arrange a time to come and finish off the bathroom, so hopefully that's a good sign.

I'm really uncomfortable with all this as I hate confrontation. I just want my house back and all these trades out of my life for ever. Is it too much to ask?!?

Meanwhile, thank you all for taking the time to respond. I definitely feel better knowing that there are other people who think that it's not me being unreasonable here. If LTB is the catchphrase of Relationships, can I suggest that DPTBAP (don't pay the bastard another penny) should be the mantra of the Property page?

[snowman1]

Oh dear. It may be a lesson to him as well that a contract is there to protect both parties. You have a few choices. 1) Screw him over, allow the tiler to finish tomorrow and get someone else to install a fire door (shouldn't cost too much in context, about £300?)
2) Pay him the original tender agreed price upon completion. Don't do this until building control have signed off.
3) Come to some sort of compromise between the two of you, I have done this for builders where every other aspect of their work was impeccable but perhaps there was a miscommunication (re: spec or workman's time) and they have added something to a final bill which I agreed was justified. This is really up to you.
4) pay him the full amount. I wouldn't do this, but if it is a quiet life you are after. You will probably end up with a confrontation of some sort!
It is a shame, there are some fantastic builders out there doing a great job and a few give them all a bad name.
BTW - you got an absolute bargain I think, were there groundworks involved?

[CatsAreLikeChocolates]

Thanks snow . I think I'm leaning towards number 2, but may have to get my own fire doors sorted out, so not sure who pays for those though...

We did have foundations dug for the garage, but the side extension was over existing ground floor extension, and loft had already been converted about 10 years ago but we changed the Velux for a dormer. Also had the roof insulated, felted and re-slated as it was leaking like a sieve. We're in Wales, which might be why things are cheaper and he was the middle of the three quotes so I suppose I felt it was the going rate really. Feel a bit better TBH that you think it's an "absolute bargain"! Still want the grumpy wee bugger to finish what he started though... Wish me luck.

[CatsAreLikeChocolates]

And your right, I really should've got a contract. I'm never ever doing this again though and intend to only leave this house in a box!

[WhatWillSantaBring]

Just because it isn't in writing, doesn't mean there was not a legally binding contract. Your written quote/ estimate is really good evidence of what you agreed. ie all that work for £36K (?). Don't kick yourself over what you could have time or waste energy worrying about it - the important thing is to make sure you get things settled.

I would send him one more letter, as formal as you can make it, setting out:

1. amount agreed initially. Both his written quote/estimate and you conversations, negotiations are relevant. Specify dates of conversations if you can (on or about 13 march we had a phone convo in which we agreed x)
   
2. acknowledge that the "extras" you asked for are owed by you to him
   
3. but that he has failed to complete the job to the required specs (it is reasonable to assume that a co petani builder would conform to building regs... Though building regs inspectors can be very capricious in their demands, it seems)
   
4. list any other snagging points.
   State a compromise position - ie I will agree to pay you £x in full and final settlement if you do y. Or not (I have paid you the contractually agreed amount and you have failed to finish he works to a satisfactory standard, therefore I will not pay anything further)
   
   Put in a deadline for response.
   
   There will be lots of example letters and advice on the Internet that is more specific, but just because there was no price agreed in a written contract, doesn't mean you have to pay more

[nicelyneurotic]

I also think that this guy is a bully. He has seen you are a non-confrontational woman and thinks by threatening to sue you that you will pay him extra money out of fear.

I don't think he will get anywhere if he tries to sue you, but perhaps post on legal for some expert advice?

I really do wish you the best of luck against this horrible builder!

[IAmOwedMoney]

I think the problem is the lack of a contract. I hope you sort something out. Snowman's response was very helpful.

[snowman1]

Sounds like its your forever house, hope you are happy there, don't let it leave a bad taste. It sounds like youglass had not got stacks to do in th loft which is great but still, your ground works can add up.
I didn't think you were in Surrey, but still, you got quite a bit fr your money! Let us know how it all turns out, sounds like you are a reasonable and I hope he can see where he went wrong and backs down.

[askasurveyor]

It sounds as though there is no formal contract and its your word against his. If you have a record of his original quote and all the extras agreed, then ask him to price the extras individually. If there is no written record of the extras then he cannot prove these were instructed. However, the usual amicable thing would be to negotiate. Agree a final figure, say £41k (ie half way), then withhold a reasonable sum for outstanding works and give a time limit to complete them. Explain to him that if he does not complete within the time frame then you will instruct another builder to complete the job and the cost to you will be deducted from the agreed sum.

[Patilla]

I think your strongest starting point is the written quote.

The write to him detailing the matters outstanding and requesting he completed them within 14/21 days according to what is reasonable given the amount of takes and their size.

End with something along the lines of if you do not do this we shall be forced to engage an alternative contractor and deduct this from your final payment.

While waiting get a few quotes for the works and get them in writing to prove your loss.

On the expiry of the deadline I would engage one of the builders who has provided the quotes to do the work.

Other phrases that are good to throw in should the need arise include "shall be forced to consider taking legal advice". Only commits you to thinking about something but sounds good!

[greenfolder]

i'll tell you what i would do at this point.

i would take £150 and go to my nearest solicitor (or possibly call the legal advice helpline you will probably have for free with your household policy) and get them to write the letter for you.

it will scare the life out of the bully. Work out what is reasonable- fixed price plus any extras you feel are fair,deduct the cost of someone else fitting fire doors. Get solicitors to send the cheque in full and final settlement.

and get on with your life.

[Sixtiesqueen]

Agree with all advice previously given. We have extended two houses in the last 9 years.

I know this doesn't help you but it might help somebody else reading this. Building an extension never runs to budget. You need 15% in reserve. Better still, 20%. When you get your costs, add this amount before you arrange finance.

I'm sorry you are having such a rotten time, hope you will get it sorted out. Must be such a worry.

[bacon]

Agree with the last messages.

People who usually come to us as a groundworks company come through recommendation and those who dont (big priced jobs) request 2 names and addresses for referees. We do some jobs on contract and others through thorough written quotes and in that quote it will list omissions and it is accepted that some works will have additional costs which are discussed and agreed at the time. If a price is quoted off the B reg plans then the builder should be wise enough to price in every detail to pass.

Sorry to say there are too many cowboys out there and its up to us the public to do research before entering into business with these people. I would also want to see the quality of their workmanship because there are some rubbish overpaid builders out there. Use Trustmark/constructionline as another recommendation and see a copy of their insurances (covering the build) and liability insurance.

A tidy van, uniform, real website (not using library photos) also gives you some assurance. Interim payments should be agreed at conception.

I have to say we are never the cheapest quote but we price in contingencies, our boys are on the books, qualified and we work 100% for the hours. I see builders start work at 9am, pop off for materials (not in yr time not acceptable), breaks and start packing up at 4pm to finish at 5. A good builder should come with a labourer so he can do the layman stuff - you should not be paying for a builder to mix cement and wash out buckets - its false economy.

He hasnt a leg to stand on.

[wonkylegs]

Building an extension can and does in many cases run to budget however any decent budget should have a contingency built into it.
This isn't the case of an overrun more of a builder smacking on extra charges without warning. If extra charges are forthcoming you should be told about them in advance and agree to them preferably in writing.
Contracts may be a bit of a chore but they are there to protect both parties - a lack of them for work costing 10's of thousands would immediately ring alarm bells for me.