How cheeky is too cheeky when making an offer? Is 30% below just rude?

[Chunkamatic]

Here's the situation,

We've seen a house which is priced at £299,950. We looked at it knowing it had been on the market a while and needed some work (I.e new windows), so already felt that it was overpriced.

However, having actually seen it it basically needs renovating. All new windows and doors, kitchen, bathroom and decorative stuff. Probably a good £30-£50k spend.

We have also found out that it has been on the market for 3 years with no offers, none. Which also tells me that it is WAY over priced.

The agent seems to think that done up it would be worth £320k but I think that is ambitious. It is in a desirable village but I think with the stamp duty threshold at £250k we would want the total spend to remain around that figure for if we decide to sell on.

So we are considering offering £210,000, which would be 30% below the asking price. But is that just rude? The vendor showed us round and told us that due to work they would need to relocate in July so there is a commitment to sell.

Any advice would be welcome.

[specialsubject]

offer what you think it is worth. This is a business transaction, not a garden party.

[TerrysNo2]

What have you got to lose? Its up to them if they accept it.

[Erlack]

I would say you have nothing to lose by making an initial low offer. It seems a little odd that they have had NO offers in 3 years.

[ChewingOnLifesGristle]

Yes! They can only say no.

[piprabbit]

Offer what you think it is worth. It might be worth clearly explaining why you think it is worth so much less than the asking price (kitchen/bathroom replacement etc.) and why you would be good people to sell to, so that they realise you aren't just chancing your arm.

[TheChaoGoesMu]

You can try. Nothing to lose.

[xabiuol]

No definitely not rude.
They may not accept the offer and they may take offense (I can never work out why people are offended by offers that are below what they would like) but there's nothing you can do about that.

If it's not sold in 3 years it is more than a little over priced. I think on the whole people have no qualms about making offers 15% below asking price on a house that needs doing up and that has been on the market for a while. The fact it hasn't even had low offers suggests that people just dismiss it as having an unrealistic asking price and look elsewhere.

[greenformica]

New windows is no biggy - you could take a few grand off for that. But if the whole property is a renovation job - yes go for it.

Look at sold prices of similar properties in the same area. Estimate the finished price yourself - 300k? Then work backwards. cost for kitchen, rewiring, bathrooms, decorating, windows, new roof, damp proofing, etc.

Start at 210 and give all reasons in list form. But actually 250 sounds like a good amount to me to settle on as I expect they won't accept 210.

Make the offer, work up to a 250 limit and then offer no more. Wait it out.

[badguider]

Offer what you're willing to pay, under the stamp duty threashold certainly makes sense - are you willing to negotiate up to £24999....?

But I'd say you need some evidence, can you find another house for £210k that you think it compares with?
Basically you'll need to convince the seller that they won't get anymore by holding out for the next person so the more evidence you have the better.

[badguider]

Also, you say it needs 30-50k spent. but you're offering 80k below their asking price... that sounds cheeky.... i think you'll need to go up to 50k below their asking to make that argument work.

[greenformica]

We got our doer-upper 30k under the asking price of 240 in a buoyant market 2005

[xabiuol]

It's not really just the amount that needs spending though badguider as you need to account for the amount of PITA hard graft that is reqired compared to an already completed house. A house that needs renovating must be worth at least 10k less purely on the basis that it needs renovating before any costs are taken into account.

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

I think your thinking is right, but it can be hard to convince people just how much work their house needs doing to it

We viewed one described by the estate agents as 'in good condition' and it needed SO MUCH doing; windows, doors, flooring, bathroom, wobbly conservatory; the kitchen was essentially three cupboards in a corner and needed extended to be liveable... but it was on at a high-ish price for the (popular) area.
DH and I were looking at each other like this >> behind the estate agent's back.

It's still on the market. Presumably the vendor truly believes it is in good condition,and doesn't see the need to drop the price.

[worldgonecrazy]

I'm concerned that there have been no offers. Is there something wrong with the house other than just needing a refurb? Are the drains sound, or any cracks in the walls or anything to suggest problems with the foundations? Is the roof sound?

If you do go it, spend the money on getting a full survey, not just the basic one.

[Chunkamatic]

Thanks for all the replies.

It's very hard to find comparisons, as the properties are all very different and it's hard to say whether or not they needed work or not from the sale price. Plus the market is extremely slow so you are comparing sales over the last 5-6 years not just the last few months.

Zoopla (I know it is a bit unreliable) seems to think it should be worth £225k, based on its last selling price and I guess the market trends since then. I would argue that the current seller has decreased its value somewhat by ripping out the existing kitchen and only proceeding to put half of it back, and even that didn't look like he'd done it properly.

By the way it was the vendor who was more than upfront about the work it required and he must have some idea of what that would cost.

I don't think we would be willing to pay up to £250, as I don't believe it's value will be much above that all done up, regardless of what the estate agent says.

I honestly do think that it is the price that is putting people off, the photos look terrible as well so they are doing very little to attract buyers. As no one has even offered its not as if any surveys have been carried out to tell if it is falling into the ground! But. Yes, as it is an old property we would defo get a full survey done.

I give it a go and let you all know!

[Chunkamatic]

I'll give it a go, that should say.

[flowery]

A vendor took great offence at a not-even-that-cheeky offer we put in on a house once. Two months later they were on the phone saying they'd now like to accept our offer. We took great delight in telling them that no, the offer was not still on the table and we'd found somewhere else.

[Mintyy]

If they were willing to go below £250,000 they would have priced the house at £260,000 - £270,000. My gut feeling is that it won't go your way but, as everyone says, you are free to make any offer you like!

[HootShoot]

I put in a low offer once and the guy was so offended he refused to even consider another offer from us!

[Pinkbear]

As someone in the business ill tell you the house on the market for 3 years without major price drops is the one that the owner isn't going to budge on price on

[expatinscotland]

You can offer, but Pinkbear might be right. This person obviously doesn't need to sell.

[Jaynebxl]

So did you offer? What happened?

[divydoris]

Of course it is not cheeky...

But I have been saving and looking to buy for years now and put in endless offers, not as high as 30% though.

Not one of them was accepted

[Chunkamatic]

Thanks for the replies. Decided not to offer just yet, DP is not sure he really likes the house anyway now! So we are going to view some others first.