Sliding Folding doors help(33 Posts)
I've been researching folding doors for our extension and I've been getting confused about who manufactures and fits their own brand doors and who supplies and fits other brands of doors manufactured elsewhere.
1st Folding Sliding Doors told me that 'their' doors are made in 'their' factory in High Wycombe but then I went on the Bifold Direct website and their doors look remarkably similar and are also made in High Wycombe. So a bit more digging and I think they both just supply and fit Origin Easifold doors.
This is what I think is right but if anyone knows different or has any advice, I would be grateful.
- Origin Easifold are manufactured in the UK and supplied and fitted by 3rd parties like 1st folding sliding doors and Bifold Direct
- Sunflex are manufactured in Germany and fitted by 3rd parties like ID Systems and quite alot of smaller suppliers
- Kloeber make and fit their own brand doors
- Express Bifolding Doors make and fit their own brand doors?
- Sunseeker make and fit their own brand doors
- Sunfold doors are made ? and are fitted and supplied by 3rd parties.
- Sunparadise make and fit their own doors
- Shuco doors are German made but don't know who supplies and fits them?
Argh! Is any of that right?
It seems that you can get Origin Easifold doors and Express Bifolding Doors in 2/3 weeks but it takes 6-8 from everyone else?
Sorry this is long, its such a lot of money and every supplier thinks their doors are the best...
I think the brand of door is probably the most important but also the supplier/fitter needs to be recommended to me so that the after sales service is good.
I work for Thames Valley Window Company. We supply and install various brands of window and door systems including Solarlux, Pirnar, Internorm, Sunflex. Have a look at our website www.tvwindows.com and also look at our trust pilot reviews. If you need any further assistance then give us a call and ask for Jon.
Thanks for all your comments. I am hoping to get some help on my own project.
I need to order a fairly big sliding door (5000 x 2700) and also some other - tilt-before-turn - windows. All in aluminum.
The biggest problem comes with the slider. I am now comparing essentially three products, all lift and slide:
Luxal / Reynaers 98mm profiles (in the middle)
Maxlight (use their own profiles, apparently) 20 mm profiles
ID Systems / Sunflex - 24mm profiles
The first one cost half the others. I am agonising on whether I should be spending double as much on the slimline profiles. What I need help with is:
Understanding how Maxlight (Culmax) profiles may compare to the ID Systems /Sunflex.
If people have any experience dealing with any of the companies above.
Thanks in advance for any help!
One thing that it is very important to know with bifolding doors and in fact most windows and doors is that quality installation and quality manufacturing is everything. As I mentioned in this thread earlier it is these two factors that can ruin what is an excellent bifolding door product. So choose your installers with care but above all, let them do their job as well.
It's very easy for us as homeowners, having spent many thousands on new windows and doors to scrutinise every detail but a good window firm cares about doing a great installation and giving you a good service.
Buying doors and windows is one of those few purchases where you can obtain your (high value) products first and pay for them "when you're happy". You can't really do this with any other major purchase - try buying a car with a 20 or 30% deposit and then pay for it when you are pleased with it!
Window companies want you to be happy so you can pay them! The door and window industry thanks largely to the sales tactics of the national firms doesn't have the most positive of reputations and it's a shame. There are over 14000 window companies serving the UK and the vast majority do really great work.
thanks for your kind comments. Solarlux are indeed good doors. Obviously aesthetics are a very personal thing so your comments on the Origin products are noted.
Another product very well worth considering is a door called Air. If you are looking at Schuco doors I would also consider the Air bifolding door alongside these. They are a very well designed door and the only one on the market with a 25 year guarantee. Origin offer 20 years and these two doors are by far those with the longest guarantee available. If you can let me know your location, I can let you know where you can see Schuco and Air doors as well as suggest alternatives if neither of these meet your needs.
Roses2 sorry was it bifolddoorfactory.co.uk you went with? We are probably getting sliding but they do those too.
Smhorrocks I will PM you with further detail but happy to say on record that I was very happy with the service from ODC over all.
They were incredibly quick getting the old doors and windows out and the new ones were installed quickly and without any drama. They are fabulous quality and the salesperson came up with a great idea for our windows which worked brilliantly. As we don't live there any more I'm happy to show the final result!
We had timber inside to match our oak window seats and dark grey alumunium outside.
They weren't cheap though, that was the only drawback, but I liked them better than the other doors I'd looked at (Sunfold, Kloeber and Schuco). They are solid and worked well.
I discovered a tiny scratch on the side of the house (where we never went) and they came back quickly to repair it. We also had one issue with the rubber seal popping out and they were back to fix that quickly too.
I had them back on Monday to quote for our new house
terrifying major renovation project.
If you have any other questionsn please feel free to ask
I like to waffle
It's not just the bifolds that are a consideration. Installation is complex and there will invariably be snagging and niggles afterwards. You want a company where the fitter comes out without any fuss, and puts things right without expecting you to put your hands in your pocket.
I haven't found a hassle-free company yet, but Express Bifolds are knowledgeable and take their reputation seriously, which counts for a lot. FWIW, I always specify Schuco because their doors "feel" right, like the handle on a VW. If you're wanting Mercedes or Porsche, IQ glass (who also sell Schuco) do a stunning bespoke bifold product at approx 3 times the price.
DarkBlueEyes, I would be interested to hear how your experience with ODC was. They have been recommended by our builders and given us an ok quote. Thanks.
Very helpful Nick! My last doors were Solarlux ones I got from ODC and I really liked the clean profile (no lines on them) and Origin are too busy for my liking (lines on the aluminium), I need to see some Schuco ones up close and personal before looking. Also want to look at Origin and Gray and Kloeber this time, just to make sure. My doors were lots of £££ so I would be happy to find a less expensive model I love the look of.
I own and run the Aluminium Trade Supply Website and we receive daily enquiries about Origin and Schuco doors.
There's a lot of marketing hype with home improvements so it's important to separate the facts from the sales patter. If I may share nearly 30 years in the business and give you some insight into thse products.
Origin doors are excellent, there’s no best product on the market but Origin pioneered a lot of innovations in bifolding doors and are arguably the market leaders.
Nobody is sure why one of the most common product comparisons is between Origin and Schuco so I’ll explain a bit more below
Origin and Schuco:
Both these doors are excellent and meet current standards. Therefore as far as security, weathering and quality of product is concerned both and others meet these requirements. However Origin supply their doors to America and they’ve had these hurricane tested, as far as I’m aware Schuco have not. We won’t put our bifolds under anywhere near the duress of other countries but it shows how well Origin are engineered. But if your doors won’t be exposed to the elements, this probably won’t matter too much. So for security and weathering both are on a par.
The Origin door is the best selling bifolding door in the UK. Origin are the only company in the UK to offer a 20 year guarantee with the product, it’s the only one available on quick lead times and it’s one of only a few doors on the market that is only made by one company. To some people the 20 year guarantee is important. To others that have no plans to remain in the property that long, perhaps not so important. But it’s there.
The door and window industry supply chain can be complex and generally the Systems Company provide the bars of aluminium and the components to a network of fabricators. This means for most bifolding doors there can be any number of people that make it. With about 14000 window and door companies in the UK, each will have their own source of supply, but the point here is that Origin are the only people that make their doors and therefore quality control is much stricter. Origin the company, the products, the people are all fantastic. It’s a great product made by a great British company.
The Schuco product is long established all over the world and it is the preferred name of Architects, high end homes and anywhere that a well engineered product is required. If I was pushed I would say the Schuco door is better engineered than the Origin and it’s the typical ‘German Engineering’ ethos behind it. I’ve been involved with the manufacturing of these doors and how they’re put together is very impressive. Much of this engineering you don’t see but arguably schuco doors are the better designed within. Even thought Schuco don’t have the 20 year guarantee I can tell you Schuco doors and windows in commercial buildings installed over 30 years ago and where the use is far more intensive are still performing as they should to this day.
If I was pushed again I would go Schuco simply because its rarer and I know what Schuco do as a company with their other products. It’s Schuco you’ll see on Grand Designs for example where you see the large panoramic glass doors and screens and generally this is the choice of architects.
I would advise you that if you’re comfortable with the fact that both doors meet/exceed the required quality standards then go with the door you like the look of the most. This in my experience is what the homeowner looks for the most. What is the better looking door? Origin you’ll see is a bit more rounded in it’s appearance. Schuco is more flatline and is slimmer. I would also look at the hardware. The door handles on the Origin door are made by Debar and they’re excellent. They feel well sprung, robust and great quality. The Schuco handles and locking gearing is designed by Schuco and made only for them. For me I like the contemporary look of their hardware and it’s also very well made indeed.
The other difference is the door catch on the doors that holds them together when open. Origin use a strong magnet, Schuco use an engineered catch were you can adjust how tight the doors are held in place. It’s only a small thing and the Origin magnet isn’t better or worse, just different.
So my advice is go with the door you like the look and study the details like handles, locks, gaskets, how the profiles look and the overall feel of them because they’re both very good in their own way.
If I was to compare another product I would look at Reynaers. Reynaers like Schuco are installed in some of the best properties the world over. Brilliantly engineered very well made and look great too.
The other doors you may find are AluK or Smarts. These too are just fine but they use more ‘generic’ hardware and in my view a bit more 'basic'. These are very popular doors that you find all over the place and at vastly different price points. They’re good looking doors but for me Origin/Schuco/|Reynaers far surpass these.
There are then some fantastic frameless bifolding doors by Frameless Glass Curtains in Kent.
Then you move onto the more expensive although the same in quality such as Sunfold and Sunflex. Theres also Centor. All of these come from abroad but are there in the mix as well but i would imagine far longer lead times.
U Values are very similar on all doors and in my experience rarely a consideration with homeowners but the Schuco door has the better U Values depending on the type that’s been tested.
So whilst all bifolds meet all current standards for weather, security, quality of aluminium, quality of paint etc etc, some are better engineered and better made. Go for one of the premium ones assuming their within your budget and the doors that you like aesthetically - go with the doors you like the look of the most and those that will meet your needs the best.
I had a bifold door fitted two months ago.
We approached 1st Sliding Doors in Perivale. Whilst their sales team were helpful, they only had Origin doors for sale and were £1k more expensive than bifolddoorfactory.co.uk who sell Schuco doors.
We paid £4k for a 3.6m triple glazed bifold and it was fitted two weeks after the measurements were taken.
This is very very interesting! I put bifolds in our last house and chose Solarlux (German) Doors fitted by ODC who are based in Chiswick. I also looked at Sunfold and Kloeber (but couldn't have Kloeber as I wanted timber one side and painted aluminium on the other). One thing I became focused on
obsessed about was the profile of the doors. Many of them are very "busy" with lines/joins etc (eg Origin), and I wanted a totally clear, blank profile which the solarlux have. Probably makes them more expensive though, sigh. I'm going to be doing more bifolds here in my new house and am researching, so this list is super super helpful, thank you. Do have a look at the profiles (close up) to make sure you are happy. It could just be my ridiculous "thing" but I like a clear profile!
Thank you teacher1234. Could you pm me where you live - we have 1st folding sliding coming round this week so not sure whether to cancel and find someone else, or raise this with them...
I cannot honestly recommend using . It has taken 4.5 months of sorting, which Origin in the end handled as 1st sliding communication was so slow.
We now have doors that work and look great although slightly damaged. We are still trying to get guarantees for them though.
Teacher1234 - not sure if I can resurrect this but we've been recommended 1st folding sliding doors (in Perivale) for bifolds so very keen to hear about any problems. What happened in the end? Thanks
Just coming to the discussion very late - but for anyone interested we have just had Origin doors fitted by their recommended installer - 1st slidingfolding doors - and we have endless problems and we are still not resolved.
The biggest frustration is 1st slidingfolding doors lack good customer service, so communication with them is an endless chasing game, and time wasted delays.
Did you get your doors CAT? How did you get on?
best advice, visit a specialist showroom see the doors and get the right advice, prices and service are always better locally as they rely on their reputation. great folding doors in chobham surrey..
proved me right origin supply builders direct who then install them under cutting your poor mugs or accredited showrooms who promote your product! good one>>
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We have Sunparadise doors, they have a handle on the outside (and the inside!)
We had woeful customer service but I think we "challenged' them by ordering a glass roof, windows and french doors as well as the bifolds so that the whole of the back of the house matched. Lots of delays and v.poor communication. They look great now installed though.
Hi Nickers, we are considering Origin bifolds right now. Do you offer a decent guarantee? They will be fitted by our builder.
IIRC, Express Bifold supplies Schuco as well as their own brand. They're also able to work to a 2 week lead time, I think. I have some of their own brand doors but they were a mis-specced order so I was able to get them immediately (therefore can't comment on how reliable their lead time estimate is) but so far, so good. We acquired internal blinds with our doors, which we didn't actually need, but I understand from others they're a good option to consider as they're far neater looking. Express has a showroom in Redhill, if that's any good??
That's interesting Nickers, I'm not far from there, do you have a showroom?
Hi, hope you don't mind me commenting on this post but couldn't help but see it this morning! Funnily enough I work at the Origin head office in High Wycombe. We manufacture our own system - the Easifold door system - you are right, we manufacture the doors at our factory then sell through accredited agents nationwide, including 1st Folding Sliding Doors in Perivale and Bifold Direct in Ascot. We offer a promise called 'Your lead time, not ours' which means we can manufacture bespoke doors in any configuration as quickly as you or your builder need them. Please feel free to call me on 0845 4506662 or email email@example.com for any further information.
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