Skirting board heating.

[pippala]

Please tell me what you know about it?
cost of installation
cost of running
energy outputs
how warm your house is with it etc etc etc!
we are renovating buy to lets atm and have never done this before and being complete novices need plenty of advice.
Many thanks x

[PigletJohn]

do you mean electric or wet?

the heat output is quite low (look it up per linear metre and see how much you will need per room). If you put enough of it in then the room will be warm enough.

it is more expensive than ordinary radiators, so presumably you are putting elegance ahead of cost.

[pippala]

Thanks lots of research needed I think. We are renovating and want the cheapest options but high spec for a good return.

[PigletJohn]

skirting heating will not be the cheapest option.

what is attracting you to it?

[AwsomeMrsFox]

We have installed the discrete heat Thermaskirt in our house and found it to be perfect for the job. It is quite a bit more expensive than radiators but it gives off a lovely even heat and the a nicer temperature in each room. I have to say we have been very pleased with it. Some of the rooms are quite big and we went with the calculations on the website and it is fine. I think we will save in the long run on heating bills as it is really easy to set temp in each room. One thing to bear in mind is how much furniture you have against the wall.

I also found the people at discrete heat helpful, although I'm not sure how easy I will be to find a fitter. Our builder somewhat reluctantly took it on, but has done an excellent job.

Let me know if you have any more specific questions

If Martin is checking back, one comment I do have is that the new fitting clips are much more difficult than the older ones. It took our fitter twice as long and we sprang several leaks. These were quickly sorted, but he said the new clips were much harder to work with.

[PigletJohn]

where can we see this independent test you mention?

when you say "more energy efficient than radiators" do you mean you input 1000W of heat, say, and get 1100W out; or do you mean that radiators input 10000W and output 900W or something?

or is there a reduction in waste heat going outside the heated envelope of the home with your product?

your in anticipation

[AwsomeMrsFox]

Sorry the other thing I meant to say was that this is really easy to install room by room as you renovate. That's what we have done. The only down side is that the heating system is over ridden by the central thermostat until we can get rid of the old radiators.

[MAYBELATERNOWIMBUSY]

a small point BUT! no system off ANY type /kind will return more energy than the input energythere is/has 2 b a LOSS ,thou do check the efficiancy of any system u may b looking at, as i recall skirting board co was laughed at in dragons den! that guy is wiping the floor with the lot of them WORLDWIDE ! AND NO PIG UGLY RADIATORS ! N.B. ON THE ENERGY IN/OUT EQUTION maybe cycling is an exeption < ?

[PigletJohn]

thanks for your advertising link, theexten. I see you've copied what you say from their web page.

I think it's great that you joined this forum and your only post has been to recommend a high-cost heating product.

It is useful to know that in the UK, energy from electricity costs the householder between two and three times as the same amount of energy from gas.

We do occasionally get posters singing the praise of a product that is alleged to produce more energy (heat) out for less energy (electricity) in. Sadly this is an impossibilty.

[theexten]

Hi PigletJohn. Would you mind telling us why you are so against this system? It seems as thought you have to argue with everyone's thread and go against it. Please accept my apology if i am being open minded here.

I install heating and thought the information i provide will be usefull for public, but thank you for looking at it from "advertising" point of view. It is nice to know it catches your attention.

By the way, EcoBoard is available as water heated system too. We have recently installed it in conjunction with an air heat pump and it works perfectly. Have you seen a radiator used with heat pump system?

[PigletJohn]

I am against anything that costs a great deal of extra money for no corresponding benefit.

If I see a skirting system that costs no more to install or run than conventional radiators I will have no objection. This has not yet happened.

[MrsjREwing]

How much extra does it work out for an average 3 bed semi?

[PigletJohn]

What makes you imagine that radiators are a thing of the past?

You use the term "energy efficient heating." When you have calculated the heat loss of a house, why do you think an expensive heating method will be more energy-efficient than an ordinary method?

[OliviaMumsnet]

Hello theexten
Sorry but we don't allow folk to advertise on the boards, so we will shortly be deleting your post. We'll email you.
Thanks

[PigletJohn]

I used your calculator for a bedroom, it calculated the heat loss at 1065 Watts, which is about right, and says that with water type, the room needs 6.5metres of skirting heater, so buy 3 lengths at 2.5 metres. This exceeds the length of the room so it would go along the front wall and one other. It would have to be a wall without wardrobes or bedhead against it, and the room does not have thee unobstructed walls so it would only be possible by removing existing wardrobes.

With Electric type it would need one 2-metre length (400W) plus one 1-metre length (200W) plus one 400mm length (80W)

The cost of this per the website would be
water type
3 lengths at £148 each = £444 (don't know if this includes VAT as it is not mentioned) plus maybe some fittings and connectors, cost unknown.

electric type
2m element £65
1m element £45
400mm element £24
casing at £72 per length (not stated but I will guess 2.5m) x 2 = £144
temperature limiting device (this might be what in English we call a thermostat) £9.60
total £287.60
(don't know if this includes VAT as it is not mentioned) plus maybe some fittings and connectors, cost unknown.


Compare the cost of the water type at £444 with a steel convector radiator of 600x800mm, output 1111W at £48.99 inc VAT. I have omitted the cost of the valves since they are very unlikely to cost as much as the valves on the skirting system.

Compare the cost of the electric type at £287.60 with an electric convector at £19.99 which would be just as effective, or a low level electric heater at £ 60 that looks nicer. Either can be mounted on the wall.

You can of course buy more expensive panel heaters if you are anxious to spend more.

Personally if I was fiting a radiator I would fit a larger one at insignificant extra cost, since it would have the power to heat the room fast from cold, even in abnormally cold conditions when extra heat is required. This would cost quite a bit more with the skirting system since the parts are so expensive.

[theexten]

it is very simple:

1. skirting board heating contains less water in the system. This small amount of water is heted quicker meaning less energy use by your boiler;
   
2. the system is fitted to external walls meaning it keeps them warm, so there is less heat loss;
   
3. system is installed in the perimeter of the rooms meaning no cold spots.
   

If this does not convince you then maybe you should speak to people who already have this system to hear what they think, their experience and if they'd like to switch back to radiators...?

[Grumpla]

Actually, I'll probably listen to pigletjohn , a regular poster on these boards who often dispenses all sorts of useful and cost-free advice.

You seem to be a new poster who is trying to give us the hard sell on a specific product.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion as to who is the more trustworthy of the two of you

[theexten]

Surely, efficiency is the name of the game these days. People go different routes when it comes to investing money into their homes. There are investments to simply turn your home into a functional living space (like simply installing radiators) and other ways - to gain both functionality and efficiency. This is no accident so many engineers are working hard on system improvements to satisfy today's living. Solar panels... Heat pumps... micro CHP... Are these cheap to install or buy? No. A good investment is great but great investment is eaven gtreater!

This debate seems endelss to me and i think it is worthless to continue as I am no worrier on my own in this feild agains Grumpla and PigletJohn.

PigletJohn, for your information, the temperature limiting device (in English) means a safety shut off switch. A thermostat, also know as thermometer, is a temperature controlling (monitoring) device - not a "limiting device".

[MrsjREwing]

You can almost hear the slow seductive hushed tones of the sales patter!

[PigletJohn]

when you say "more energy efficient than radiators" do you mean you input 1000W of heat, say, and get 1100W out; or do you mean that radiators input 10000W and output 900W or something?

or is there a reduction in waste heat going outside the heated envelope of the home with your product?

As you mention keeping the walls warm, this will of course increase heat loss to the outside, since heat transference is directly proportional to temperature difference.

your in anticipation

[PigletJohn]

In my worked example (above) the additional installation cost is a single modestly-sized bedroom needing just over 1kW would be about £400 more than using radiators.

In my whole house, I have about 8kW heat loss on an ordinary winter day, and about 12kW when very cold.

So this skirting system would cost me at least £3,200 more than using radiators, or £4,800 extra if I wanted enough power to cope with very cold winters.

If they actually were more energy efficient (for which we have seen no evidence, and I actually think is impossible) I wonder how many years it would take to save £4,800? My annual gas bill is about £600, so even if they saved 10%, they would take 80 years,

[gelo]

I agree with piglet, costs don't stack up, it won't be more efficient and the thexten is using bad science to try and persuade otherwise.

For instance, less water in the system at any time simply means to deliver the same output heat the flow rate through the system must be greater and the boiler will have to reheat the water more often. The amount of heat delivered by the boiler will be the same - eg if the skirting has half the vol of water, it will have to go around twice as often as for the rads.

Only advantages are asthetic and possibly the cold spot argument (though if you chose well placed rads vs poorly placed skirting I suspect this may not be true either)