We rely on advertising to keep the lights on.

Please consider adding us to your whitelist.

loader

Talk

Advanced search

Teaching by teaching assistant alone Y2

(47 Posts)
violetbloom Tue 05-Jan-10 11:19:01

My dd's teacher will be off work for about 4-6 weeks this year as she's having surgery. I expected there to be a replacement teacher but this morning found out they will be being taught only by the TA for this period of time. Is this normal? Will this affect their education and I wonder how they'll cope with the jobs the TA used to do which was frequently to listen to reading / do spelling tests / mark homework.

violetbloom Tue 05-Jan-10 11:34:20

bump

singalongamumum Tue 05-Jan-10 11:38:12

This isn't normal practice. TAs have recently been trained to cover classes for short periods ( a couple of hours a week) to cover what's called PPA- planning, preparation and assessment time but it seems completely unreasonable to extend this to a 4/6 week period. I'm nopt even sure it's legal tbh- she may be a HLTA (higher level teaching assistant) who has received special training, and it may be felt that as they are small the children will benefit from staying with a friendly face. But I would AT LEAST expect there to be another TA in there too. It may be worth going to discuss your concerns with the Head.

foxytocin Tue 05-Jan-10 11:38:13

I am under the impession that it is illegal to have a TA leading the class. I would check my facts on this so I could quote the relevant statutes an then write a letter to the board of govs and copy it to the LEA and Head teacher.

violetbloom Tue 05-Jan-10 12:02:27

Thanks, I'll check with someone in the office if the TA has any extra qualifications that make her officially able to do the job and whether or not there will be an assistant to her in the class. This morning there was just her and one of the SN assistants who looks after an autistic boy.

To be honest she's not a great TA. We've had some amazing ones in previous years but this one can hardly string a sentence together most of the time so I don't feel that happy for her to head the class for up to 6 weeks.

smee Tue 05-Jan-10 13:21:33

I think it's illegal too. They have to have a qualified teacher. Seems a strangely laid back approach for the school to have for a Yr2 class. Most are so paranoid about SATs results and six weeks is a long chunk of term time in the run up to them.

hungryhipppo Tue 05-Jan-10 14:04:29

Worth checking with the school, my sister works as a TA, but is a fully qualified teacher so she has stepped in to teaching roles in her school and they backfilled her TA post with extra hours from the other TA`s. Easier (and cheaper) all round and better for the children as there is a continuity of taeching `style`, no need for new faces etc. Could this have happened in your situation?

mrz Tue 05-Jan-10 17:46:44

no it is illegal.
A TA may cover in an emergency for a short period of time but may not teach.

Higher level teaching assistants (HLTAs) can also provide short-term cover and may deliver lessons if they meet all the criteria.

hungryhipppo I may be wrong but I think even though your sister has QTS the school is breaking the law unless they pay her as a teacher for the time she is working as one.

youwillnotwin Tue 05-Jan-10 18:04:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrz Tue 05-Jan-10 18:43:19

No one is saying that there aren't TAs more than capable of delivering a lesson but the fact is the school is breaking the law (it also applies to cover supervisors)

roisin Wed 06-Jan-10 17:02:49

An HLTA should definitely not have sole-charge of a class for this sort of length of time.

shockers Wed 06-Jan-10 17:07:14

A HLTA can take a class but cannot plan the lesson. The teacher will have made all the plans before she goes off.
It does seem a long time though.

Hulababy Wed 06-Jan-10 17:07:39

I am not convinvced that a TA, nor a HLTA, should be used in this way, or if it is even allowed as such.

Aso very unfair on the TA. S/he will be doing a teacher's role for 6 weeks, with extra responsibilities and duties, and with no TA of her own to support her/him. And on a much lower salary than a supply teacher.

As a TA I would question this myself if asked to do it, let alone if I was a parent of a child in the class. As it happens I am qualified to teach, I was a teacher (albeit secondary, but actually no retraining required anyway) for 10 years. Yet I would still not be happy to be used this way. If they want me as a teacher, they pay me as a teacher!

The school is cost cutting IMO.

shockers Wed 06-Jan-10 17:08:05

I would also hazard a guess that she/he will have another TA.

Hulababy Wed 06-Jan-10 17:10:01

By mrz Tue 05-Jan-10 17:46:44
hungryhipppo I may be wrong but I think even though your sister has QTS the school is breaking the law unless they pay her as a teacher for the time she is working as one.

I was under the impression they can't do this either. It is releveant to my own position, so did look into it briefly.

mrz Wed 06-Jan-10 17:15:19

shockers a TA can also take a class short term the difference bein the HLTA can deliver a lesson (planned by a teacher) whereas the TA can legally only "watch" the class.

hocuspontas Wed 06-Jan-10 17:26:30

Is this legal then?

In my infant school all the teachers and TAs teach phonics at the same time. I (as a TA) take a group of 10 - 15 children for 20 minutes every day. My teacher is in another part of the building. All of us TAs do the sessions unsupervised. Wouldn't these be classed as 'lessons'?

shockers Wed 06-Jan-10 17:29:55

I take groups of children out for all subjects to teach. Usually the ones who need extra guidance but not always.

mrz Wed 06-Jan-10 17:30:39

By hocuspontas Wed 06-Jan-10 17:26:30
Is this legal then?

In my infant school all the teachers and TAs teach phonics at the same time. I (as a TA) take a group of 10 - 15 children for 20 minutes every day. My teacher is in another part of the building. All of us TAs do the sessions unsupervised. Wouldn't these be classed as 'lessons'?

yes it is legal you are working with a group of children for a part of the day not teaching a whole class for 6 weeks.

mrz Wed 06-Jan-10 17:32:44

By shockers Wed 06-Jan-10 17:29:55
I take groups of children out for all subjects to teach. Usually the ones who need extra guidance but not always.

it isn't classes as "teaching" even though that's what you are effectively doing and you are working under the direction of the teacher even though not in the same room.

hocuspontas Wed 06-Jan-10 17:38:13

I thought it must be! Our HT is pretty good at not exploiting the TAs. It just made me think when you mentioned about TAs should only 'watch' the class.

Tinuviel Wed 06-Jan-10 19:58:39

"A HLTA can take a class but cannot plan the lesson. The teacher will have made all the plans before she goes off.
It does seem a long time though."

That would also be very unfair on the teacher - she cannot realistically plan 6 weeks of lessons when she is going off for surgery. Lesson plans may be prepared in blocks like this but may well need altering as the term progresses and children work slower/quicker/don't know what they are doing etc.

lilac21 Wed 06-Jan-10 20:36:38

I teach Yr 2 and daren't plan lessons more than a few days ahead. Even at this point in the term there are things we are doing eg in maths that I don't know how they will respond and whether I will need more lessons to ensure they have a secure understanding before I move on. I could provide plans for the next six weeks, but it is always difficult to follow someone else's plans and no HLTA should be asked to do this for an extended period. I hope the TA/HLTA is in a union and has raised her concerns.

mrz Wed 06-Jan-10 20:48:15

A HLTA can not take a class for four or six weeks they are only allowed to cover for short absences.

Under the Workforce agreement

HLTAs will provide short-term cover where a Supply/cover teacher cannot be secured

+ The 3 day limit applies to an individual teachers’ absence. An HLTA may cover for longer than this for a number of different teachers.

+ HLTAs work under the professional direction, and under a system of supervision, of a qualified teacher.

you will find the information on the TDA site

mrz Wed 06-Jan-10 20:51:32

HLTAs can be asked to plan

HLTAs can be expected to:

* Have a clear training programme - WAMG Note 9 April (2004)
* Supervise classes – WAMG Guidance for HLTA (2004) and WAMG Note 12
* Plan and prepare group activities - WAMG Guidance for HLTAs (2004)
* Teach whole classes e.g to cover teachers’ PPA time - STPCD (2007) page 188- Paragraph 73/


* Plan lessons - WAMG Guidance (2004) Section 133 Regs (2003)
* Support teachers in planning - WAMG note 12 & WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Organise resources - WAMG Guidance for HLTA (2004)
* Monitor and evaluate pupil progress - WAMG Guidance (2004)


* Record internal results - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Support learning of pupils - WAMG Note 12
* Participate in local & national learning strategies - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Use ICT to support learning - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Help select resources - WAMG Guidance (2004) section 133 (2003)
* Assist out of school activities e.g. field trips - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Support SEN pupils including IEP(Individual Education Plan) - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Provide short term cover supervision - STPCD (2007) Page 188 paragraph 74


* Work under supervision of more than 1 teacher - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Have enough time to plan & record pupil progress - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Have a clear pattern for appraisal/performance management - WAMG Guidance (2004)
* Line manage other support staff including Performance Management
* Have an appropriate HLTA contract – National Agreement (2003) WAMG Note 12

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now