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Why do people resist european style sex and relationship lessons starting age 5

(52 Posts)
Informer2 Fri 28-Aug-09 20:38:10

Why do people resist european style sex and relationship lessons starting age 5

Ie we get 1 hour in secondary school... they will have had hundreds of hours before they hit puberty

Consequently european ie Dutch teengers are balanced, experts of sexaul health and contrception, understand bobdy lanughuage, relationships, the opposite sex, communicate better, are far more open with parents and teachers in what they need to know,.

No need for playground BS like you cant get pregnant standing up, first time, before fore first period, if you type a luminous watch around the guys willy (yes people do belive that one)

Kids ask gronw ups for info, they dont grow up awkward or embarrasing and discussing sex and relationships is like discussing a maths problem.

They have a fraction of the teen pregancies we have which are mostly in relgions immigrant families there.

And as a result of a massive decrease in teen pregancies much less drain on benefits, far less feral grow up to be chav and gang member psycho kids as kids dont bring up kids grown ups do who have finished higher education

etc etc.

It makes sense...

Innocent kids are the ones who end up abused as nieve and clueless.

And just as you know why boys and girls are different and why older brothers are facinated with girls breasts and older sisters love guys muscells and both like making out

Does not stop you being a kid and liking kids stuff as you are well a kid... no hormones yet

HecatesTwopenceworth Fri 28-Aug-09 20:40:03

Children in primary do now get sex ed.

Wonderstuff Fri 28-Aug-09 20:45:35

I hear you and I personally would be happy with Dutch style sex ed, BUT I really don't know that that would make a massive difference to teen pregnancy in this country. We have a real problem with girls who don't achieve academically WANTING to get pregnant at the first opportunity. They don't know what to do with life, they didn't have the best upbringing and a lovely baby will love them and they will get somewhere to live and maybe their boyfriend will stay with them, and then of course the chances of their children becoming parents as teenagers is also really high.

I think we need to give children every opportunity to be educated and informed about the reality of relationships and families, but I think our teen pregnancy problem runs deeper than thinking you can't get up the duff if you do it standing up.

Informer2 Fri 28-Aug-09 20:51:44

Erm part of 'proper sex ed ' is a nothing held back very graphic lesson in what it is to be a mother including giving birth with all the screams and blood showing it happen for real ideally in real time

But more so the non stop screaming, how you cant see your mates, how you have no money, no life, guys wont want to date you... all your mates off to Ibiza except you

etc etc

everything inc everything...

As said talking about a very heavy programme think a lesson a week, with aspects taught accross the curriculum and no withdraw your kids option on relgion grounds either.

So Wonderstuff ahead of you there.

Inc pointing out how social housing means neighbours with junkies and psycho thugs

means you will end up hating the kid for runing your life etc etc

Wonderstuff Fri 28-Aug-09 21:06:40

But the thing is you can see your mum has no money, no one in your family works, you don't have any hope of getting any qualifications and according to your big brother only mugs get jobs, if you worked you'd have to get up early and not swear and do what you were told, worse than school. You know how to look after a baby because your big sister has one and she has her own flat and you are getting sick of your mum and her new boyfriend and so it would be nice to get your own place. You have always lived in social housing and only tossers live in the posh estate up the road... We need more than sex ed imo.

Before I get flamed I know that there are some great young mums who do have aspirations for themselves and their children, but sadly there are a lot of young people without any aspirations beyond having kids at 15/16.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 28-Aug-09 21:13:29

i agree. but before you know it there'll be someone on here typing some old guff about it sexualising innocent children. said DM stance being exactly why we don"t have it in this country. very sad.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 28-Aug-09 21:14:14

i agree with the premise that we should have dutch style sex ed from 5 y o i should say

Informer2 Fri 28-Aug-09 22:17:14

*quote
But the thing is you can see your mum has no money, no one in your family works, you don't have any hope of getting any qualifications and according to your big brother only mugs get jobs, if you worked you'd have to get up early and not swear and do what you were told, worse than school. You know how to look after a baby because your big sister has one and she has her own flat and you are getting sick of your mum and her new boyfriend and so it would be nice to get your own place. You have always lived in social housing and only tossers live in the posh estate up the road... We need more than sex ed imo.

Before I get flamed I know that there are some great young mums who do have aspirations for themselves and their children, but sadly there are a lot of young people without any aspirations beyond having kids at 15/16. *

so what would you suggest ways around that to add to the program?

Informer2 Fri 28-Aug-09 22:21:48

*By sophable Fri 28-Aug-09 21:13:29 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

i agree. but before you know it there'll be someone on here typing some old guff about it sexualising innocent children. said DM stance being exactly why we don"t have it in this country. very sad.*

Point out innocent child walk down dark allies with a strager to go see puppies and are never seen again.

Educated streetwise kids dont and live longer.

Innocence is evil its being vunerable, easily bullied, easily abused and likely to end up dead.

And then you go full on attack at the puritan moralists

ie bring up peado priests, witch burning, forced arranged marriages, hnour killings, how the church had 30,000 girls imprisioned, tortured, beaten raped, those who had got pregant had their babies torn from their arms in the name of morality and innocnence etc

Get the general idea?

then point out statistaic data proveing you are right like

SUCCESSFUL SEX ED COUNTRIES STATS AND INFO

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=419&Itemid=177

http://www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/Articles/teen-Sep03.htm

(see stats at bottom)

http://www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/L/lifestuff/content/up_close/letstalksex/inde x.html

http://www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/L/lifestuff/content/up_close/letstalksex/dutch .html

http://www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/L/lifestuff/content/up_close/letstalksex/findou tmore.html

Compared to American religious freak based, ‘keep kids innocent and they won’t have sex drives abstinence’ programs
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080312/thl-health-us-disease-sex-youth-0b0437e.html

http ://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/29/abstinence-pledges-have-nn153930.html


Production company that made the documentary series
http://www.betty.co.uk/flash.php

http://www.humantruth.info/birth_control.html

DUTCH SEX EDUCATION
www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/tcr/files/tcr/news/
europetour.xml#1119288090469::69980152 54475574609
Blog of American sex educator on fact-finding tour round Europe, including trip to Netherlands

http://www.mistymedia.co.uk/blog/2005/09/29/dutchsexeducation/
http://www.rutgersn issogroep.nl/English

Wonderstuff Fri 28-Aug-09 23:41:25

I don't know how you raise young peoples aspirations and break the cycle of poverty. There must be a way but I haven't yet seen a program that works well to consistantly raise aspirations and break the generational poverty cycle. We are a society still deeply divided by class and I don't think that other European countries have quite the same social deprivation seen in parts of the UK.

Whilst I completely agree that introducing Dutch style sex education is the way to go to help some young people I also feel that saying that innocent children are likely to end up dead is a bit ott.

Informer2 Sat 29-Aug-09 09:20:25

quote
By Wonderstuff Fri 28-Aug-09 23:41:25 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

I don't know how you raise young peoples aspirations and break the cycle of poverty. There must be a way but I haven't yet seen a program that works well to consistantly raise aspirations and break the generational poverty cycle. We are a society still deeply divided by class and I don't think that other European countries have quite the same social deprivation seen in parts of the UK.

Whilst I completely agree that introducing Dutch style sex education is the way to go to help some young people I also feel that saying that innocent children are likely to end up dead is a bit ott.

There have been effective programs (often based around music and creativity) but the authourities cut their funding or close them down... clearly as prefer kids killing and beating people up... maybe its a divde and conquer policy of getting all the poor folk fighting each other instead of uniting.

Hence crushing hippy and rave movements but doing naff all against gang culture.

There is not ott...

whihc kid would go with the pscho and get in their care?

the innocent or the streetwise one aware of the danger?

Likewise which would would report molestation?

The one told that they should do as grown ups say and play games like 'lollipop' 'joystick' and 'fill her up' n(got that of a cop show) and must not tell mum and dad.

or the one aware of sex and the difference between making love and rape and peadophilia who knows they are being abuse and would try and get away or pretend to go along with 'lollipop' so they can introduce their attacker to a new game called pitball ripps off bollocks with teeth then stabs attacker in eye with biro.?

Tortington Sat 29-Aug-09 09:22:38

why can't Parents do It

fkin leaving things up to the school

school should teach academia

not the social stuff parents are too inept to teach

you want to teach your children about sex and relationships

GO RIGHT AHEAD no-ones stopping you - you dont have to wait for parenting by proxy through schools

weegiemum Sat 29-Aug-09 09:33:03

Because Custardo, parents just sometimes don't!

the religious ones
the nervous ones
ones from different cultural backgrounds
the ones who can't be arsed!

I'm a secondary teacher, have taught kids who don't know basic personal hygeine (inc one child who was taken off by staff to be showered in the school changing rooms regularly).

Leaving it up to the parents doesn't always work.

Tortington Sat 29-Aug-09 09:36:25

then teach THE PARENTS

do not parents by proxy through schools

weegiemum Sat 29-Aug-09 09:41:50

You can teach the parents all you like. But sometimes they don't think they need taught, or they delude themselves that their nice little 16yo dd would never have sex, or they prefer abstinince only, or even if you do educate the parents, they still don't want to, or have no inclination to?

I don't think schools should 'parent by proxy'. But some kids need more parenting (especially in important areas like sex/relationships/fertility) than their parents are able to give.

abra1d Sat 29-Aug-09 09:42:36

I just don't believe that children in Britain don't know about sex. I'd say most of the children round here with ASBOs or who had teenage pregnancies, etc, knew an awful lot, very early. Just turn on the TV and it's all there, all round the clock. The average 13-year old probably knows more sexual positions than I do.

I agree with Custardo. Spend more time actually teaching teenage girls the skills they can use to get a job (not necessarily academic qualifications but vocational skills).

seeker Sat 29-Aug-09 09:45:37

In answer to the OP - because they don't understand the problem/are religious nutters/are stupid/get all their opinions from the Daily Mail/are confident about their own parenting skills but don't give a damn about the kids that aren't as lucky as theirs.

I think that just about covers all the possibilities.

Tortington Sat 29-Aug-09 09:49:06

its sad that you think that educating parents would be ineffective - so they can do their job instead of the schools having to do it for them.

notcitrus Sat 29-Aug-09 10:02:04

It's not sex education that's so different in other countries, but relationships education. Tell the kids about emotions and everyone has them. That someone saying 'if you loved me you'd have sex with me' is at best misguided and probably doesn't love you. What sort of give and take is needed if you move in with someone - what sort of questions to think about when establishing a relationship with them.

Might at least cut down the number of 'but he said he loved me' pregnant girls surprised to find themselves single.

MOre education on contraception wouldn't go amiss, either.

Informer2 Sat 29-Aug-09 10:16:10

quote
By abra1d Sat 29-Aug-09 09:42:36 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

I just don't believe that children in Britain don't know about sex. I'd say most of the children round here with ASBOs or who had teenage pregnancies, etc, knew an awful lot, very early. Just turn on the TV and it's all there, all round the clock. The average 13-year old probably knows more sexual positions than I do.


Actually they dont...

its like saying kids know how to drive as used to playing racing games on their computer where you always have extra lives.

They not lots of bits but their education has lots of holes.

ie they may know what a blow job is but may dont know that there is such a thing as precum therefore pulling out never works.

Likewise many think virgins cant have AIDS

Think sperm dies in air... it does notat least not for ages

They think they have safe times of the month and associates bull like you cant get pregnant standing up, if you squrt pepsi in a girls vagina... etc etc

Likewise most seeing porn think that how most people do it... They think guys last ages, kissing is not involved etc.

ie they know mostly a load of crap

hence accidents


And the parents operate on my mates think the same so must be right or whatever cloub fairy they worship is right

Informer2 Sat 29-Aug-09 10:17:28

quote

By custardo Sat 29-Aug-09 09:49:06 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

its sad that you think that educating parents would be ineffective - so they can do their job instead of the schools having to do it for them.

its called living in the real world...

Its also sad unicorns and fairies and pixes dont exist either... oh and gods

Tortington Sat 29-Aug-09 10:21:12

is it really that unrealistic to teach parents how to teach their children about relationships

is it really that unrealistic that its on par with pixies?

v.sad if you think so imo

Informer2 Sat 29-Aug-09 10:24:29

TYPICAL SEX ED LESSON FROM A PARENT WHIHC WAS GIVEN BY A TYPICAL PARENT...

this was from a mate.

Sex son, its second hole from the back and be careful and oh tits first son,

He got this in mid teens

Other parents talk about french letters

I pitty the poor kid who ended up humiliated in a post office not even knowing what a french letter looks like

Whilst other parents go on about girls getting monthly curses from god for the sin of EVE

Other parents into forced arranged marriages and honour killings as god says so.

Or the parents saying nobody does that its just on TV.

You get some kids who take the worlds blow job literally putting boyfriends in hospital.

Others thinking you can get pregant from one.


I once had to tell a kid on a forum in no uncertain terms if they tried to ask about how to make 'penny royal tea' ie a home made abortion concoction that his girlfriend would probably die.

The vast majority had no clue about emergency contrception, morning after pills etc thinking they could wait a week.

Many convinced they could not get pregnant half the month

others thinking crisp packets would do as condoms.

Many thinking they cant get pregant first time.

or he only put it in a bit ot shot his load on the outside so its ok.

Others not realising panties are not sperm proof

Most not realising if they gave their boyfriend a hand job and got sperm on hands then fingered self they will get pregnant


etc etc

etc

Tortington Sat 29-Aug-09 10:25:54

i said

teach parents.

Informer2 Sat 29-Aug-09 10:28:18

quote
By custardo Sat 29-Aug-09 10:21:12 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

is it really that unrealistic to teach parents how to teach their children about relationships

is it really that unrealistic that its on par with pixies?

v.sad if you think so imo


No its unrealistic to expect your average brit parnant to be capable and responsible enough to be trusted with the job given the evidence Ive seen of the attiudes and thinking of most parents Ive come accross

quote
is it really that unrealistic that its on par with pixies?

v.sad if you think so imo

yes it is sad but thats reality...

Given most of the examples in real life Ive come across and the uk teen pregancy rate

inorder to get parents able to do the job you have to educte an entire generation from scratch age five with no exceptions or relgion influence and wait till they become parents themselves utterly altering society forever much like was done in the Neihterlands

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