How to speak to school about Dd's social dilema's problems. Please

[colie]

Have posted before about Dd's so called friends at school, at the issues she has had at times with them and the issue I still have.

Dd is 6 in yr 2. There are only 6 girls in her year in her class (composite class). The leader of the gang A is in her class as is second in charge B. For the past two years she has talked about alot of the girls in her year being in a "gang". Think there was about 12 of them. Going by what dd says now there doesn't seem to be as many, but certainly still the 6 that are in her class and a couple from other classes. In the past dd has said that none of the 12 are friends, apart from A and B, they all just play together because they want to be friends with A and B.

A and B call themselves the leader and second in charge and rank all the girls, ie who is third in charge etc. They have a sign in policy in the gang, have to sign in with B and a signing out policy, if they want to play with others .

Anyhow, dd has been in the same class as A every year she has been in school. Other friends have been split from her but not A. She has been in B's class for two years now. These two girls ostracised dd about 3 times in year 1. She had noone to play with as the 12 girls were all in this gang. When she asked to play with any of them she always got told "they weren't playing anything". Luckily she found a girl a year above to play with, who has now moved away .

It has happened twice to her this year. It has been really upsetting. I have tried to explain to dd that A and B are not real friends for her. She is too young to understand this and when they are talking to her she loves them. She says they are her best friends. (so much so that they have came to her parties every year but never invited her back to theirs). They didn't even give her a xmas card, although they gave out xmas cards and she gave them one.

Dd has told us another girl in the class is getting ostracised now (sorry about sp). She has also said that other girls mum has spoken to the school about it and other girl is allowed to go into other classes at playtimes etc.

An incident happened before school in the playground this week between B and my dd. I witnessed it and could see how much my dd puts up with just because she desperately wants this girls friendship. My dh sent an email to school saying how we felt about the relationship between our dd and A and B. Yesterday, dd was off sick but her teacher saw me taking other dd to nursery. She said they agreed with the email and it has now allowed them to "put ticks in the right box's." She wants to talk to me and dh about this. Oh and she said there had been a huge incident yesterday morning and pushing was involved (B use to push my dd all the time, although school don't know this)

Think we will have the talk on wednesday. Just looking for advice on what to say.

I want to say that all I want now is for my dd never to be put in the same class as A or B again.

I want her to learn what proper friendships are and she can't do this under their influence, also noone else apart from DD has been in A's class every year. Not fair if my dd has to do it again. Also feel that two years with B is quite enough.

The school may have a problem with this as I think they will want to split A and B up next year. This may be an issue if I insist my dd is not with either of them. Although every year so far there have been 3 classes for my dd's year.

Is this request unreasonable?
Thanks for reading all this and any advice would be greatly appreciated as getting very nervous about this meeting.

[nightmarehelp]

Sounds like some early classic queen bee stuff going on. I think you're doing the right thing getting the school to help (no idea about how reasonable the splitting up question is though) but you may benefit from reading this book as well:

www.amazon.co.uk/Queen-Bees-Wannabees-Boyfriends-Adolescence/dp/0749923644/?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

It analyses typical girl 'friendships', cliques and so on brilliantly and gives ideas for talking about them to daughters and helping them deal with it all. It's aimed more at mothers of teens but you've got that ahead too so well worth a read IMO.

It's A and B who really need the intervention though here - they need to understand that the way they're behaving is completely unacceptable.

[colie]

Thanks for replying. I will need to have a quick read of that before meeting with school.

This has been an ongoing issue for so long that I feel sick at the thought of sitting down to talk to school. I am panicking that I will cry and say the wrong things.

[CarGirl]

Perhaps you need to write a list of what your dd has put up with, how it is affecting your dd etc etc

[colie]

Dh thinks we can't premeditate (sp) what we are going to say as we need to wait and see what school says to us.

Think your idea Car of a list is good though as then I won't come out thinking "I forgot to add this or that".

[melissa75]

I went through this exact situation with one of my pupils, also in a year two class, and also with your description, with the other two causing some difficult social relationships. First, not to say that this justifies anything, but children can be intensly cruel to one another, and it is a sad yet very true phenemonon. The way we dealt with it was I had the parents in of the child being bullied, and we went through point by point what her concerns were. I then spoke to their daughter on her own and got her side of what was happening, I then spoke to the other children to get their side of the story, and then had the parents back in again to let them know what I had come up with. It was interesting getting the view of both sets of children. I did find out that both groups of children were being just as mean to each other. Please do not get my wrong, I am not saying this is the case in your situation, just describing how I dealt with my particular pupils. Anyway, the outcome was that after speaking to both parties, I told the girls involved that they were to work together and be nice to one another, and if they were not able to do that then they would all be seperated from one another both in the classroom and in the playground. They did not like this idea so they started being nice to one another and apart from a few very minor situations, all was well between them and continues to be now that they have moved into year three.
So my point is, it is really important to get the school involved and to have them listen to both parties, because unfortunately you are only getting one side of the story at the moment, and not that I am saying your child has done anything wrong, but kids will usually pass on information to put themselves in the best light because of fear of being told off or getting into some sort of trouble, so it is important to give all parties a chance to give their side of the story and then work together to come up with a solution.
Good luck!

[colie]

Melisa I agree with exactly what you have said. I have been posting about this problem for two years now and have always been given advice similar to the advice you have given me today. I do appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post.

[colie]

Sorry didn't finish last post. My worse nightmare is that she is in a yr 3 class with them.

[Katiestar]

My DD is in Yr 3 and I could have written almoost the same post !
There are only 6 girls in the whole of her yr because it is a small school .I can identify one Queen Bee and 3 Wannabees as far as I can see.the remaining girl is lovely ,but whenever DD makes a friendship with her one of teh others breaks it up.

I agree with Melissa only to an extent.When i was at school it was exactly the same situation and it definitely wasn't a 2 way thing I never did anything mean to the others.
I have asked the teachers many times if DD is something to make her unpopular and the answer is always 'No, she hasn't a mean bone in her body .It is teh other girls.' But they don't do anything about it !

DD used to solve the problem by playing with younger children but the school then forbad that ( because there had been problems with some of teh reception parents who didn't like their PFBs playing with big boys)She then took a book outside to read but now that has been banned too (because she should be socialising) .So now she plays with the boys which isn't ideal because she is so very very girly and finds them a bit rough or just walks round on her own.

When we go on holiday she makes friends easily ,as she does at Brownies & other activities.It is school where she has the problem.

[melissa75]

"I agree with Melissa only to an extent.When i was at school it was exactly the same situation and it definitely wasn't a 2 way thing I never did anything mean to the others"

ugh...I am getting SO frustrated with people NOT reading what I wrote...I did not say it was a two way sit. for this poster, I said this was the situation in MY class, and this is how I dealt with it, and notice I said TWICE that I was not saying this was the case with her child. READ what is written before commenting on it.

[singalongamumum]

Colie- I agree that it's a good idea to write down the main events/ points, even more so as the school will hopefully be giving you new information which may distract you and you need to feel like you've said everything when you get home.

These 'girl relationships' are very hard to manage in school because it is often difficult to unpick whether it is the usual girl stuff (falling in/ out of friends etc) and what is something more serious. So if your DDs school is sensible they'll be really pleased to have more information. As a teacher, I have had both situations- parents thinking it's bullying when it isn't and parents assuming it's trivial when it isn't. The best solution is always to talk and if you get upset at the meeting that will be perfectly understandable and the school will not be judging you for that.

You can request your child moves classes, but they may not be able to fulfil all your wishes as they have to consider the needs of all pupils, so maybe have some other alternative suggestions too. Is there some way they can facilitate your DD making friends with other pupils?

Finally, while I have no doubt that your DD is having a tough time and it is horrible to witness, it's important to remember with girls particularly that this is all part of a very important learning process for them and with the right support at home and school your DD will come through this wiser about relationships. She won't necessarily be scarred for life, or not understand how to make friends- she will probably understand better.

I hope that helps

[colie]

Thanks everybody.

I know it is a nightmare situation, for the school and for me and dh. Singalong-a rl friend ex school teacher, had advised me that all of this is part of life experience for dd and teaching her about how to get along with people, where she fits in etc. I have been bearing all this in mind, which is why I have never mentioned it to school.

I think in the past my dd has said nasty things to them and vice versa. I think it has now got to the stage where she has them on such a high pedestal that she just idolyses (sp) them. She has also learnt that the best defence is conformity.

Dd has other friendships with little girls and I get all the usual stuff at times. I can tell it is just typical little girl stuff. Whereas with these two there is just such control, or need for control. I maybe totally wrong, and alot of it maybe coming from my dd as well. I suppose I can only wait to see what the school says.

I know I will be devasted if the school cannot seperate them up even if just for a year. I think I will consider changing her school if they can't accomodate this request.

Thanks again everyone for replying. The advice is much appreciated. I will be bearing it all in mind during my conversation with the school.

[melissa75]

Colie...I hope you will post the outcome from your convo with the school...I am interested to hear what they will be doing about it!

[colie]

Melissa-thanks for the interest. Not sure what day I am speaking to the school, but will update when I get back.