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Primary school teachers please help

(27 Posts)
Reallytired Thu 18-Sep-08 18:42:38

At the end of the foundation stage my son scored mostly 8 and 9s in the foundation stage profile. In Maths where the are about 3 areas, I think he got 2 9s and 1 8.

At the end of year 1 he was scored as being level 1C.

Am I right in thinking this is extremely poor progress? In secondary schools children are expected to go up 2 sub levels a year. What is expected in primary?

robinpud Thu 18-Sep-08 18:44:46

3 sub levels are expected each year for us, but transition from the Foundation stage is difficult to grade. If he is 1c at the end of year 1, then in our classes he would be expected to leave year 2 as 2c which is well within the age related expectations. When is his birthday?

RupertTheBear Thu 18-Sep-08 18:47:09

It's difficult to say really but I guess a child scoring 9s in FSP would be above average and I would expect an above average child to be scoring 1a or 2c at the end of Y1. However the FSP is scored very differently to the normal levels we use and I'm not sure what the expected progress would be. Might be worth having a word with the teacher.

MaloryDontDiveItsShallow Thu 18-Sep-08 18:48:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Reallytired Thu 18-Sep-08 18:51:59

His birthday is end of December. He is not the oldest or the youngest.

But surely a child who scored well in the foundation profile should be above average not below average at the end of year 2.

I am right in thinking that 2B is the average score at the end of year 2. A score of 2C is err well... a bit weak without being SEN.

MaloryDontDiveItsShallow Thu 18-Sep-08 18:55:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MaloryDontDiveItsShallow Thu 18-Sep-08 18:56:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

robinpud Thu 18-Sep-08 19:00:07

REally tired- our SEN children are scoring no where near a 1c by the end of year 2.

These levels are a crock of shite really and I hate seeing parents measure their children by them.
Neither are standardised scores and so could be very suspect. How was he assessed at the end of year 1? Is it a teacher assessment?

I wouldn't get too hung up about his progress unless you feel he isn't able to do what his peers can, or is unhappy or struggling.

I would exepct most of my year 2 children to be able to do most of the following.

Can he count with 1:1 correspondence to 20?
Can he add and subtract numbers to 10 mentally accurately?
Can he tell you pairs of numbers which make 10?
Does he recognise 2d and 3d shapes and can he use simple language to describe their properties?
Can he spot patterns; sort by simple criteria and explain the rules to a game he likes playing logically?

MaloryDontDiveItsShallow Thu 18-Sep-08 19:00:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

robinpud Thu 18-Sep-08 19:16:09

Do you want to jobshare with me Malory then?

MaloryDontDiveItsShallow Thu 18-Sep-08 20:38:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mumto2andnomore Thu 18-Sep-08 22:08:20

Im a teacher and I wouldnt worry about it.Maybe the teacher scored him too highly in the profiles, maybe this one scored him a little low in Year 1. I wish they would scrap the lot of it really, especially for Foundation and Key Stage 1, its just numbers.

Littlefish Thu 18-Sep-08 22:11:48

Malory - please can you help me with some problem solving stuff. I've got a very poor y2 class and I have almost exactly the Friday that you've outlined above grin. (I also work on Thursdays though!)

What are your most successful problems solving lessons?

pudding25 Fri 19-Sep-08 09:37:07

I teach yr 1. Some of the children who come up from reception match up to their reception scores, some I feel are scored too high, some too low. However, as the other posters have said, it is all a load of crap and the pressure being put on tiny kids is ridiculous. In most of the world, children do not even start school until they are at least 6.

If you are worried, have a chat with his yr 2 teacher and see how he is getting on with the yr 2 work.

robinpud Sat 20-Sep-08 21:19:56

Littlefish- have you downloaded the problem solving package from the numeracy bit of the standards site.
Basically, pick a type of problem ie find all possibliites and run it for 4 weeks presenting it in a different way each week so that they get to focus on the porblem solving skills needed eg systematic recording, logic,etc. Then chose next problem solving skill and repeat process.

Best ideas for maths without pencil
chair games
pizza problems
anything with a packet of skittles each
making nesting dolls
measuring giant chalk dinosaurs on the palyground etc etc

Littlefish Sun 21-Sep-08 15:06:39

Thanks Robinpud - I've only just started working with the new Primary Framework (as I've been in Foundation Stage for 8 years), so I'm still getting to grips with the website. I'll go and have a look. The sort of things you outlined look ideal!

robinpud Sun 21-Sep-08 15:24:40

the website is a nightmare imho. I think it is incredibly unwieldy and very hard to use. Others might probe me wrong. I still reach for my paper copies of the old framework!

bamboostalks Sun 21-Sep-08 15:29:24

1C at the end of Year 1 is something to be concerned about. You are right to be worried, I would be. He will be a 2C at the end of Year 2 and that is weak. I would go and share your concerns asap.

Reallytired Sun 21-Sep-08 18:44:10

My son is hard of hearing. They seem to think its Ok for a child with hearing problems to make no progress.

Teachers may not like pushy parents like me, but ultimately my son has only one chance at education. It doesn't help when his teacher decides not to use the soundfield system.

What worries me is that he was 8/9 on the foundation profile, but seems to have learnt nothing in year 1.

I have got him a tutor as I don't feel I can trust the school. Sadly the other state schools are even more cr@p

bamboostalks Mon 22-Sep-08 08:59:44

That makes me very sad to hear that, my brother is deaf so I do have some second hand experience too. Has he received a statement? They should be using the system that you believe he needs. You need to be very pushy when you have a child with SEN. I would state these concerns in a meeting and you should state that you believe your child is being discriminated against because of his disability and that the school has lower expectations of him because he is deaf. I am a teacher as well so please let me know if you need more help. Good Luck.

throckenholt Mon 22-Sep-08 09:03:33

give him time - it is a huge step starting school - a big social challenge - and more so if you can't hear I would think. Some kids take longer to adjust - the academic side may slow down for a while but will probably pick up again once he gets more confident with the whole school thing.

If he is happy in himself I wouldn't be too concerned at the moment - and would not do the tutor thing for a while - most little kids are exhausted by school anyway - they don't need more of the same when they get home - they need time to play and unwind.

lljkk Mon 22-Sep-08 11:51:38

I love your post Robinpud on 18/9 19:00h.

As a parent (not a teacher) I would interpret 1c/end of y1 as "Room for improvement", not "weak". Isn't 1b supposed to be average? Or are the dc of Mnetters not allowed to be academically slightly below average? hmm

Besides, they're children, not robots. They will naturally have spurts and plateaus in development.

Reallytired Mon 22-Sep-08 21:21:55

How can a child slip from being well above average to being considerally below average. Am I not allowed to question what has happened?

If my son had poor foundation profile score then I would understand if he was below average. What is more important is the progress a child makes rather than a grade.

If a child's starting point was 4 on the foundation profile for maths then a year 1 teacher will have done well to get them to 1C.

However if the child scored 9 on their foundation profile and then scored 1C at the end of the year then the teacher should hang her head in shame.

robinpud Mon 22-Sep-08 21:50:56

REallytired, you are missing the point.

In the same way that children walk and talk at different ages, so their rate of academic progress varies. HUGELY in some cases, MASSIVELY in the first few years of school.
The " tests " that you are placing huge store by are neither scientific, benchmarked or accurate really. A child's performance in these tests may well be judged by many people to be a barometer of the teaching they have recieved preceding the test, but remembber all the gains that your child has made over the last year which are not measured by tests- sharing, coping with routine, increasing independence and a willingness to have a go etc

The questions you need to ask are
" Is my child happy and ready to learn at school?" " Is he working to his full potential?" "Are his additional needs well catered for?"

I hope you get the chance to have a good discussion about your son's social and academic progress with the teacher.

Expecting standardised progress in children of this age is unrealistic.

Your final comment is simply not worthy of retort.

dramaqueen Mon 22-Sep-08 22:09:53

Actuallt I think ReallyTired has a right to be concerned. Her son id hard of hearing and the teacher isn't using the equipment she is meant to. This may well be the reason he has not made much progress. She does need to go in and address her concerns. Also her chils is in year 2, so hardly still in the settling in phase of school. This is his third year.

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