Times tables - dd won't learn them!

[Jux]

DD is just 9 and starting year 5. Yesterday she told me she was very worried about her numeracy lessons as she doesn't understand it (in fact, she's in the 'top' group in her class). The thing that was worrying her most was long division and we went through a few examples to help. I realised that she still doesn't know her tables.

I have been trying to help her with her tables since year 1. She has the ELC poster on her bedroom wall - we used to have it in the kitchen and recite the tables every day, but after a week or so she simply wouldn't do it. I have bought her a Times Table CD so she can sing them, but she won't. We have workbooks - she won't do them. We have test books - she won't do them.

She had the same teacher in Years 4 and 5, and we had a great relationship; she said "dd will learn her tables when she decides she needs to". Although dd has worries about numeracy, they are not enough to make her decide to learn her tables!

It seems to be a case of leading a horse to water, but it refusing to drink. I really can't think of any other way to help her short of bullying her, which only make her more determined not to do it. I am seriously considering shutting her in a room with nothing but the poster and making her read it out loud every day for 10mins! Any ideas?

[SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore]

how she sleep on a night? if she is a good sleeper and it wont disturb her leave her cd playing overnight while she sleeps.

you apparently 'learn' in your sleep. also sing them to her while you are busy tidying or whatever.

the more she hears them the more likely they will sink in.

[georgimama]

My mum used to recite a table with me every morning on the walk to school. It took me AGES to learn my tables (and to tell the time but that is another story, but probably connected with an inability to learn even my 5 times table). Try not to worry, if she is otherwise doing OK at school I am sure it will fall into place with some gentle encouragement. I think I am quite bright but maths is just something I am not very good at - strangely did absolutely fine at GCSE maths as liked algebra and trigonometry and that got me through!

Can you get her one of those grid things that has them all worked out (or is that the ELC poster? Have not got this far with DS)?

Not much helpful there, would recommend gentle perseverence. 9 is still quite young.

(Tip for 9 times table, can do it on your fingers - hold two palms up facing you, hold down your left thumb, you have nine digits showing, that's once nine. Hold down left index finger, one thumb on the left and eight digits on the right, that's eighteen, and so on!)

[georgimama]

And yes I still do my nine times table like that, get funny looks sometimes from my supervising partner at work!!

[mumto2andnomore]

My dd has also just started Y5 and has been playing a game on the computer which they play at school. Im sorry i dont know how to do links but its on www.bbc.co.uk/skillwise then click on games and times tables. She really enjoys it. Always helps if its fun !

[Jux]

Thank you. I will try playing the cd to her while she sleeps (she can't stand the music on this cd; it is frankly, quite appalling so I don't blame her, but she might not object in her sleep!).

I shall also try the 9 times finger thing from georgimama when we get to that, but we have still to conquer 4 - 8!

I've seen those games, mumto2andnomore; does your dd actually learn the tables from them though? It looks as though you're not really doing much more than clicking on squares - when I had a go I wasn't looking at the actual numbers which were the products of the sums!

I know 9 is still quite young, but when I was at school we recited our tables every day from year 1 (they were on biiiiig charts on the wall) so by the time were in year 3 we knew all of them reflexively. That's why I still know them at 50 and my mum knows them at 83!

[PoorOldEnid]

leave her

if she won't learn them with you there isn't much you can do

when she stresses over it tell her that it is up to her - if she won't learn them then that is her lookout

that approach always works with dd1

[JLo2]

How about a computer game/program so that it's more playing a game than 'learning her tables' There are lots of free ones online. I've found this website useful in the past although not sure what is on it now.

www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths

[cariboo]

Mine won't learn hers, either. My new tactic is that she can't have pocket money until she learns her tables perfectly, logic being that you can't manage money properly until you know your tables. So far, no joy. My dd is shockingly stubborn. Friend of mine managed to get her dd to learn them by negociating one table per week, with tempting pressie (in her case, extra riding lessons) for each table learnt successfully.

[PoorOldEnid]

dd1 will have to do one a week this year (year 4)

she did it last year also

this time I will help her practice if she wants. If she doesnt want my help and refuses to learn then she can get 2 out of 12 every week. I am not going to nursemaid her through it.

[Blu]

I have foolishly been panicked by one of DS's friends who has learned (with help from his very organised mother) all his tables up to 9, and they are just beginning year 3. Because Ds missed the last half term of last year I assumed they had all done it (they haven't)...so have been trying to do a crash course with him.

We did it by assigning a character voice to each times table - some of which have been based on the Numberjacks characters fo that number (he still remembers that ghastly programme).

Then we have done it parrot fashion in the silly voices - but I think the differnt voice for ach times table has helped him not muddle them in his mind.

But we're only up to 5.

[Jux]

I have been nursemaiding her haven't I She's an only child and we get over involved. Every so often, I need a kick up the bum to remind. Thank you