Yr 2 Sats - 2c what does it mean?

[cardy]

I just don't really understand the scoring and because the school essentially doesn't believe in sats we have recieved little explaination.

We always been told at parents evenings etc. that dd is doing just fine, however she got 2c in her literacy - is that 'just fine'? It seems she is in the bottom 10% in her year. I haven't really discussed it with dd (don't think its appropriate) but should I be concerned?

[tortoiseSHELL]

Level 2 is the expected level for Y2, and for some areas you get a banding across Level2 - so English is split into Reading, Writing, Speaking and Listening. The levels go up from 2c, 2b, 2a. So your dd has scored just under the expected level.

BUT......that's not necessarily a reason to be concerned - if you are worried, then speak to the teacher, but there could be any number of reasons - it could be they have concentrated on something else, could be it is just one little area that she could do with a little extra help, it could just be that she is young in the year (remember the range of ages is as much as a year).

[tortoiseSHELL]

(Sorry should have said, when level 2 is split, 2b is given as the 'expected' level).

[LIZS]

A 2 would be just fine . c is lower than an a but still within the range, I'd be amazed if statistically only 10% are 2c.

[stitch]

2b is considered national average. however, if a class of thirty has 16 scoring level three, then yes, it is time to be concerned. is she getting adequate extra help?
but, if that is the averagelevel of the class, then it is not time to be concerned

[LIZS]

but aren't the SATs at Year 2 fairly subjective anyway . There logically should n't be over half scoring a 3.

[tortoiseSHELL]

I'll look out our break down, but it seemed to be about 1/3 on level 3, 1/2 on level 2, the rest on level 1/W

[cardy]

She did struggle with reading in reception and year 1 but we were told she has improved. The reason I was concerned was because we received a sheet showing how this score related to the rest of yr2 and nationally. Only 5 out of 38 got 2c (or below).

We've had parents evening so there isn't an obvious opportunity to speak to her teacher however I think I need to request a chat. I guess I need to ask about extra support both from the school and at home. My concern is that if her reading isn't so good it my impact on her other learning.

[cardy]

Tortoiseshell - of the half that are level 2 how does the a,b,c break down?

[mrz]

The government are telling schools that a 2c should be considered a good Level 1 rather than a secure level 2.

[cardy]

sorry don't understand mrz

[mrz]

www.dcsf.gov.uk/performancetables/ks3_04/k3.shtml
we are being asked to treat children who achieve a 2c as working at level 1 rather than level 2.

[cardy]

does that mean they get extra support?

[cardy]

does that mean they get extra support?

[mrz]

It's certainly nothing to worry about and they may get a bit of a booster if it's thought necessary in Y3.

[flack]

What is the average score, nationally? I mean, we know that 2b is the 'target' -- but what is the average that children are really achieving?

[mrz]

It's one of life's mysteries because the score a child needs to achieve a level this year isn't the same as they needed in previous years and probably won't be the same as they need to get the same level next year
Sorry haven't got any KS1 scores
English 2008
Writing
Level Mark range
N 0-11
3 12-24
4 25-36
5 37-50
Reading
Level Mark range
N 0-10
3 11-17
4 18-31
5 32-50
English overall
Level Mark range
N 0-19
2 20-22
3 23-42
4 43-68
5 69-100

Mathematics
Level Mark range
N 0-14
2 15-17
3 18-44
4 45-77
5 78-100

Science
Level Mark range
N 0-18
2 19-21
3 22-40
4 41-63
5 64-80

Key stage 2 English 2006
Reading
Level Mark range
N 0-9
3 10-17
4 18-32
5 33-50
Writing
Level Mark range
N 0-12
3 13-24
4 25-36
5 37-50
English overall
Level Mark range
N 0-19
2 20-22
3 23-42
4 43-69
5 70-100

Key stage 2 mathematics 2006
Level Mark range
N 0-15
2 16-18
3 19-45
4 46-77
5 78-100

Key stage 2 science 2006
Level Mark range
N 0-17
2 18-20
3 21-39
4 40-61
5 62-80

[tortoiseSHELL]

Ok, these are the marks from ds1's school - they're given in percentages; the first line is ds1's school this year, the second the national results last year

Speaking and Listening;
W 1 2 3
0 6 55 39
2 11 65 22

Reading
W 1 2c 2b 2a 3
2 8 18 16 29 27
3 13 13 22 24 26

Writing
W 1 2c 2b 2a 3
2 12 22 22 33 10
5 15 22 27 20 13

Mathematics
W 1 2c 2b 2a 3
2 4 18 20 35 22
2 8 16 24 27 22

Science
W 1 2 3
0 8 63 29
2 9 66 23

Hope that is reassuring and makes sense! What it means is that in writing, a 2c goes between 15% and 37% in ds1's school, nationally between 20% and 42%(in terms of 'ranking' the children), in reading, at ds1's school from 10% to 28%, nationally from 16% to 29%. So far from being in the bottom 10%, she could be very nearly average, if she was at the top end of the writing 2c.

[cardy]

that's useful, will compare when I get home later. We are going for a chat with her teacher tmrw so hopefully we'll know if there is cause for concern.

[alardi]

There's nothing wrong with getting a 2c. What matters is that the child has a good love of learning. The rest is just targets and statistical averages. They still have plenty of time to develop, too.

I don't understand what tortoise said (sorry). But if I understand our school results, last year only 7 out of 100+ marks given out were 3 or greater, and at least one child got more than one 3 mark. Only 3-5 children got any 3 marks at all (so, they really are exceptional at our school).

[tortoiseSHELL]

alardi - sorry, I knew I was being unclear. Basically, cardy said that getting a 2c put her dd in the bottom 10% of the class. But by those statistics (taking the national ones), her dd comes somewhere in the lowest 42%, but above the bottom 20%. Or put another way, is in the highest 80%. Which is very different from the bottom 10%.

[cardy]

OK - just to clarify at dds schools the results were:

Reading
W 1 2C 2B 2A 3
0 0 5 24 24 48

she got 2b for maths and writing and 2 for science.

Is it that there are lots of very good readers in her year and she's pretty average?

What I am trying to assertain is whether she needs extra help. I am worried (rightly or wrongly) that if her reading isn't so good other aspects of her learning will suffer (e.g. she won't be able to read instructions). To me she seems very bright and interested in learning....just not interested in reading. I am not sure if is because she just isn't interested (I wasn't at school) or because she finds if difficult. Hopefully we'll find out more when we see her teacher tomorrow.

[cardy]

OK - just to clarify at dds schools the results were:

Reading
W 1 2C 2B 2A 3
0 0 5 24 24 48

she got 2b for maths and writing and 2 for science.

Is it that there are lots of very good readers in her year and she's pretty average?

What I am trying to assertain is whether she needs extra help. I am worried (rightly or wrongly) that if her reading isn't so good other aspects of her learning will suffer (e.g. she won't be able to read instructions). To me she seems very bright and interested in learning....just not interested in reading. I am not sure if is because she just isn't interested (I wasn't at school) or because she finds if difficult. Hopefully we'll find out more when we see her teacher tomorrow.

[moopdaloop]

oh I've just started a thread like this

what does level 2 mean without any alphabetical sub-levels given

[cardy]

level 2 is the nationally expected level of achievement at the end of key stage 1.

only English has sub levels

[cardy]

oh and maths