Not informed about violent incident

[foibles2011]

Hi all I'm not sure whether I'm overreacting here so I'll explain the situation first.

There is a young boy in my dd's class (9y) with suspected autism from what I understand, who has no support from a TA etc. Since school has returned he has become increasingly aggressive towards his classmates, swearing, using the middle finger, shoving, pushing and being defiant and rude towards teachers.

On Monday this culminated in him having a meltdown during class, swearing, shouting abuse, throwing pencils and a bunch of keys at other children, ripping up books and destroying ipads. My dd along with her classmates were initially told to ignore him (my dd was actually told off for looking and threatened with losing a house point!) and then removed from the classroom when he escalated.

While I understand that he was clearly in distress and this was not his fault the situation concerns me as I dont feel it should have got this far or would have had he had the correct support in place.

My personal issues are that as a parent I was not informed about this incident by the school, my daughter was understandably upset but no staff checked with me to see if she was OK, I don't believe she should have been told off for looking (what was she meant to do, wait for something to hit her first then look?) and that when I tried to approach the teacher on Tuesday to speak to her she interrupted me said "yes we are aware children were upset, things are being put in place" and then walked away giving me no chance to discuss my concerns.

Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?

How would you feel in the situation?

TIA xxx

[NancyBotwinBloom]

I don't think they can tell you as it's not your child.

I'd be concerned but I don't know what else you can do.

They have said they are putting measures in place so I suppose you can only
Let them try these measures.

Not a nice situation all round.

[Guymere]

You cannot intervene with the other child but I would be amazed that any school didn’t have a TA in the classroom with a child who has a known problem.

A tactic the school might be employing is that the child becomes so dangerous to others, that they exclude him. If this is what they are doing by not allocating TA time to him, it’s reprehensible. I feel for all the DC in the class. It’s not being managed appropriately and your DC should not have this worry on a day to day basis.

You can use the official complaints procedure if the situation does not improve. You may wish to use it sooner. Schools have a duty to keep ALL children safe. Your DD wasn’t treated appropriately and the school should inform parents about how they intend to help DC who were affected by this. Stand your ground. Don’t be fobbed off about the effect it had on your DD. However don’t expect to be told about the arrangements for the child with SEN. It is perfectly ok to ask what arrangements are in place to ensure your child feels safe though.

[Guymere]

I forgot to say: yes you should have been informed about what happened. Some schools have appalling parental communication. The teacher did not act professionally and the Head should have contacted parents.

[growinggreyer]

The class teacher will not be able to talk about the incident. I think you should make contact with the Head or deputy and ask them how they are safeguarding your daughter.

[Hazelnutlatteplease]

Your daughter wasnt injured I assume because if she was in sure you would have mentioned it.

It which case it isn't really any of your business. School handled it. No You didn't have a right to be informed about another child's distress.

Regarding your DDs upset. I'd be saying to her, "you are very lucky in life, you are able to be healthy and happy at school. Some children aren't so lucky and need much more support. Unfortunately it can be hard to get tgat support until something goes wrong. Hopefully that child will get the support they need now."

[seayork2020]

I would not expect to be told as a parent no,I would expect the school to handle it so the situation is hopefully not repeated.

If my child was seriously upset by something I would then contact the school about that part

[Hazelnutlatteplease]

Yes your DD should have been told off for staring. Teachers need to diffuse the situation. Staring doesnt help. Teach your child to be considerate to special needs.

You remind me of a parent who made a TA cry after a school trip. Apparently the mum was upset because whilst they could see the coach it has stopped a way away from the parents and their (perfectly neurotypical child) had been distressed. What the TA couldn't tell her was that the coach had stopped because a child had become unconscious due to a long running medical issue, the TA herself had been tending to the child and the childs parent had been called in to literally carry the child off. The coach had stopped a little way off to protect the childs privacy from the waiting parents. The parent of the ill child agreed for a letter to go out explaining the situation in the hope the ridiculous parent would be shamed into a better sense of perspective. But the parent had absolutely no right to know

Whatever the crisis point, if your child wasn't materially hurt or harmed. Teach your child empathy and resilience.

[IJustWantSomeBees]

@Hazelnutlatteplease if a child has been put in danger while under the care of the school it is 100% a parent's right to know. OP's DD was distressed and that is completely understandable, children should not have to fear having objects hit them during another child's tantrum.

I am sensing some projection in your comment

[IJustWantSomeBees]

@Hazelnutlatteplease OP's DD does not lack empathy for naturally wanting to be able to see if an object is about to hit her! that is ridiculous

[Hazelnutlatteplease]

But the child wasn't hurt. When the kids were in danger, they were removed. That is correct procedure.

[Hazelnutlatteplease]

At no point does the OP say the child was throwing objects at her child. At other children, yes but not her child. I'd be surprised that the OP didnt mention it if things were.

Her child was essentially a witness to another small child having a mental health crisis.

We dont need to be melodramatic about these things.

[foibles2011]

Thank you for your responses - no my child was not hurt - the girl sat next to her had keys thrown at her head - the reason why my dd was concerned and looking!

And no I am not interested to know the ins and outs of that little boys life - but I do feel that if other children have to be removed from their classroom for their own safety parents should be informed (without naming names).

After all if there was a gas or water leak (has happened) and the children were moved parents would be informed (has happened).

@hazelnutlatteplease please do feel free to reel your neck in - my sister is autistic so I and my daughter are both very aware and sympathetic to people with special needs!

My concern is that the school have a duty of care to ALL children and it appears that they are failing to fulfill it.

[pollylocketpickedapocket]

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Your daughter wasnt injured I assume because if she was in sure you would have mentioned it.

It which case it isn't really any of your business. School handled it. No You didn't have a right to be informed about another child's distress.

Regarding your DDs upset. I'd be saying to her, "you are very lucky in life, you are able to be healthy and happy at school. Some children aren't so lucky and need much more support. Unfortunately it can be hard to get tgat support until something goes wrong. Hopefully that child will get the support they need now."

Would you be feeling like that if your child's education was disrupted on a regular basis??
Because I fucking wouldn't.

[BluebellsGreenbells]

From experience nothing will change.

DD moves school because of a child similar.

You can ask all you like but nothing will be done.

Think about moving classes or schools.

[BlankTimes]

If you complain, it MAY help the school to get the lad the help and support he needs. Definitely ask school what they can do to safeguard your child.

Please also understand he cannot help his actions, they come from a place of being totally overwhelmed to the point he can't cope. He's not being deliberately vile, he just needs whatever has caused his overwhelm to stop and he doesn't know to make that happen.

[roundturnandtwohalfhitches]

disin his class who was diagnosed with ASD by year 6. So there were 6 years of table throwing and melt downs. DS got used to classroom evacuations. We were never informed by the school of any of the incidents. Some parents complained as their child had borne more of the brunt of a specific incident and still weren't informed but I doubt you'll get anywhere with the duty of care to all children line unfortunately. The child was much better when diagnosed and had some one to one put in place.

[borageforager]

My DC was in a class with a violent child for a while, we were never told of any incidents. My DC would tell me sometimes, or I would hear about it from other parents. I think it's standard not to be informed & it would be explained as being not about your child therefore not your business.

[Hazelnutlatteplease]

Yes. It did happen in DD's class and yes I did feel that way.

The classroom had to be evacuated about 3 times in total. Not once did the school notify me, but i heard it off DD. They did notify me appropriately when DD was (minor) injured. Shortly after that the school then had the evidence to get the right support in and actually he managed the next 2-3 years (mostly) sucessfully. It really was an incredible primary. Sadly it fell apart at secondary.

[Hazelnutlatteplease]

And no it didn't affect my DDs overall achievement. But the school had a strong ethos of teaching compassion which every child benefited from.

[Zodlebud]

It’s a difficult one.

We had a similar problem but were only informed of things that directly affected my daughter.

She used to come home and say x did this today and they were really naughty (Some of the things were pretty ghastly). But that was all I knew and it wasn’t my business to know more.

Then one day the teacher called me at school today that my daughter had received a bump following an unprovoked incident with another child and filled me in on the treatment (a cold compress). They couldn’t tell me any more but of course my daughter filled me in when she came home. They did, however, tell me what procedures they had put in place to prevent it happening again.

The only time we heard anything more was when we received a message to say that the TA had received an injury at school and had been taken to hospital (and that she was OK but needed medical attention). Again, no details from the school but daughter told me that the child had deliberately injured the teacher and that they had been taken to the headteacher.

Turns out the child was then expelled but we never heard about that either.

So I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn’t expect to hear anything from the school about this as my child wasn’t injured or directly involved. She witnessed the behaviour, agreed, but that’s not necessarily something you need to be informed about.

I would, however, write to the school saying you were made aware of the incident and how can they ensure your child is kept safe from future episodes.

[LaBellina]

Going against the grain here but I think it's unacceptable that you were not informed about what happened. Ofcourse I wouldn't expect any details about the boy who was having the meltdown but a heads up along the lines of 'something happened today in class that didn't hurt your DD but she might be upset, we can't go into further details due to privacy policy but please talk to your child and ask if they're ok.'

The school has a safe guarding duty to ALL children and as a parent I would want to know if they could not guarantee a safe environment for my child because that's what we're talking about here.

[LaBellina]

Not my child in this story obvs but we're talking about the most essential part a school should offer: a safe environment for all students.

[ivfbeenbusy]

Teach your child empathy and resilience.

The classmates and the teacher shouldn't have to put up with though. As an adult you wouldn't expect to have "resilience" in that situation so why would you expect that from a child?

I can see why the school wouldn't inform you to protect the privacy of the child in question but now you do know I'd be asking how the school is going to deal with this going forwards

[ScarMatty]

No you wouldn't be informed

Your child was likely removed to help diffuse the situation with the other child, not because your child was in danger

You'd be getting letters home every day otherwise

Parents are very very very naive as to what happens in school

Unfortunately with 30+ kids in a class, it isn't the personal experience you dream it to be

[doctorhamster]

Unfortunately every school will have children who need support, but there's no money to pay for it. School won't inform you unless your dd is injured in some way. They also won't be able to magic up the money to pay for support for the other child.

I don't know what the answer is but children with SEN are being monumentally failed by a broken system.