Discipline policy

[80skid]

I wonder if anyone could comment on the discipline policy at my child's school and/or offer their experiences please? This is KS2

My child's school have done away with afternoon playtimes Monday - Thursday, but have an extended playtime on a Friday where they can choose what activity they take part in. During the week, they operate a yellow and red card policy for bad behaviour - yellow means your Friday break is reduced by a specified amount of time and red means you cannot take part in Friday playtime. Children are allowed to "earn back" their Friday privileges during the week if their behaviour improves (I don't know if their behaviour has to exceed expectations, or simply come up to the normal standards expected from the rest of the children).
There are some children who are very disruptive and repeat offenders. They do not seem to be improving, earning multiple yellow and red cards a week (and day!!!!)
Is this a usual discipline policy? I have no background in education, however I think that a) a consequence on Friday (which may or may not actually come to fruition) is too far ahead, especially at the beginning of the week and that the consequence needs to come as soon after the behaviour as possible and
b) The children ought to have a break every afternoon to run off steam and go to the toilet. Surely adding the breaks up to equal one break on Friday results in a net loss to lesson time, as the learning time will be disrupted by toilet breaks which would normally happen at playtime?
Thanks for reading

[ineedaholidaynow]

Do they have a break in the morning? I am sure when DS was at Primary School they dropped the afternoon break in KS2. The teacher would sometimes let them have a quick run around on an adhoc basis.
They also had a system where rewards were earned for Friday afternoon and they could lose Friday afternoon privileges if they had behaviour points. These points could be removed if their behaviour improved.

[80skid]

They do have a morning break, yes.
I thought this system was unusual, but it seems it's not unique!

[Pinkflipflop85]

It's a very common system in schools in our borough, although ks2 playtimes disappeared from timetables over 10 years ago.

[spanieleyes]

It would be quite rare to find a school where KS2 do have afternoon breaks I would have thought!
This sounds like a version of Golden Time-earn rewards during the week with the reward on Friday. KS2 should be able to cope with working towards a delayed reward.

[RedskyAtnight]

Yes, this is a very common system.
It's also very common not to have afternoon breaks in KS2.

[Whitelisbon]

My dc are in primary 2 (year 1 equivalent) and they don't have afternoon playtime, neither did my eldest, she's in 6th year (last year of high school).
In fact I don't think we had afternoon playtime when I was at school either.
My lot seem to manage.

[ineedaholidaynow]

DS’s school also had staggered lunches so the oldest pupils had lunch last, so they probably had a shorter afternoon period than the youngest.

[Scubalubs87]

Its very common for KS2 children not to have an afternoon break. I’ve been teaching for 10 years and no school I’ve ever worked in has ever given KS2 children a formal break.

[cabbageking]

You have to teach x amount of hours per day.

If you wish to give additional breaks or longer lunch times then you need to be extending the length of the school day. We don't have an afternoon break.

They have clearly developed this to suit the schools needs and there will be an assessment of what works and doesn't work later in the term. This is the same for all schools as new cohorts and new issues come to school you have to review new ways or refine ones already in place.

[80skid]

I'm obviously completely out of touch then!!! I always had afternoon breaks right through school and there was never such a delay in punishment for misdemeanours. I think maybe I'm adding the ongoing behaviour issues with this and coming out with a a theory I can't prove or disprove

[PitterPatterOfBigFeet]

Well it's bad practise not to have a break but lots of schools do it. It's also obviously silly to have such a delayed punishment. The children who tend to be more impulsive are also less able to translate the bad behaviour to the future consequence. Young kids often need help with concentration and improving impulse control etc constant punishments always stop being effective because the kid just gets used to it, labels themselves as the naughty one and cracks on regardless.

[ineedaholidaynow]

I assume they have other strategies for certain behaviours too. I assume if they punch another child I doubt the only punishment will be the loss of 5 minutes of golden time on a Friday afternoon.

[NotYourTypicalNerd]

What are the schools hours? My DC never had breaks in the afternoon. 8,50-3,15

[cabbageking]

It isn't bad practice not to have an afternoon break.

Our afternoon is only 2 hours long. They don't need a break.
A break would mean adding 20 minutes to the day and throwing all the parents arrangements out the window without any positive impact.

[MiniEggAddiction]

@cabbageking

Of course it's bad practise. The length of the school day has remained broadly the same and play time has been reduced. It's been linked with increased obesity, decreased child well being and an increase in behavioural issues. Of course if you don't care about any of those things it's fine.

[MiniEggAddiction]

It's also absolutely not developmentally appropriate for a seven year old to sit still for 2 hours concentrating without a break. Playtime is also important for social development.

[80skid]

That's interesting you make the link to obesity @MiniEggAddiction because the Friday activities seem to be film watching or computer game playing based, so they are missing out on active time through this policy

[cabbageking]

All the topics mentioned has a range of contributory factors and non of the academic data has led to any belief it is down to removing a school break. Since some schools removed this in the 70's there should be a plethora of data to support this. There is not

It is what you do everyday in schools to support children and how it is individualised for those children.

[SpruceTree]

Teachers need to have some way of disciplining children. Like it or not some children misbehave and there needs to be consequences for their misbehaviour. Those consequences need to be strong enough that they act as a deterrent to bad behaviour.

We can't wrap children in cotton wool so much that they never learn to behave properly and consider others.

[RedskyAtnight]

It's also absolutely not developmentally appropriate for a seven year old to sit still for 2 hours concentrating without a break

I don't think any primary schools require their 7 year olds to sit still for 2 hours concentrating without a break ...

[HundredsAndThousandsOfThem]

@SpruceTree

Did you write that without reading the thread? Your comment is so daft! Of course there need to be consequences but a consequence so much later simply doesn't work for young kids and that's very obvious since the same kids are repeating the same behaviour with the same results.

[HundredsAndThousandsOfThem]

I also agree with PP that there is evidence that increasing recreation time has only positive benefits for kids. Its linked to reduced obesity, more positive social interactions and better behaviour. Some kids naturally have more energy to burn than others also. It's ridiculous that they have so little opportunity to run around and socialise.

[CherryPavlova]

Mine didn’t have breaks at KS2 and that was over a decade ago. Sometimes we have very low expectations of children and sometimes we expect schools to do everything. Children in prep schools manage to behave and focus on learning. Not all learning is sitting in silence.
Your average seven year old can work perfectly well for two hours without needing to run around.

Obesity is something for parents to address. If you’re worried give them more out of school physical activity and less junk food. If parents took more responsibility for their children’s behaviour, weight and learning instead of undermining school staff, children would get a clear and consistent message about expectations.

[CripsSandwiches]

Wow so much misinformation here from teachers too! There evidence is very much in favour of having more time to move around in the playground (apart from it being blindingly obvious from a common sense perspective). Increasing free time and physical activity is linked to better nutrition, better behaviour, less fidgeting and particularly for boys improved maths and English progress.

A few papers here but there's an enormous body of evidence to support this. It's not in the least bit controversial.
(www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00220679809597584, www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743514004599, www.jsams.org/article/S1440-2440%2816%2930238-9/fulltext)

[BubblesBuddy]

Although very many schools do not have afternoon breaks, often the afternoon lessons are less intense than those in the morning and could be art and PE. There are also after school clubs that can involve running around. 2 hours of not running around in ks2 is fine. Many DC get taken to run around after school by parents and this is obviously a good thing and shows parents taking an active interest.

I think the bigger issue is that some schools have shortened lunch breaks. This is traditionally when DC run around. Also schools can alter the length of the school day as long as they give the statutory notice period and consult first. I think lots of parents would like a later finish in state schools! It costs the school in supervision though!