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Why would school not want to do EHCP

(94 Posts)
treeglass Tue 29-Oct-19 12:29:10

I've posted this in sen as well but my ds is starting the process of seeing the autism team and possibly getting a diagnosis but that's 18 months away. Paediatrician told us to get a EHCP spoke to Senco about it they said he doesn't need one, they have children with autism who haven't got one, and they won't apply if they don't think he'll get it.
They pushed for this referral in the first place hmm
Why are they now saying no? I've done a lot of googling seems like it costs their budget etc
Am I being truly fobbed off here or should I trust the Senco?

OP’s posts: |
Alicenwonderland Tue 29-Oct-19 12:34:52

Purely down to money I'm afraid.

EmmiJay Tue 29-Oct-19 12:37:48

Its money. Until they get that official diagnosis or the ball rolling on the diagnosis (which is a year gap in between first meeting and final assessment) they won't even start planning the EHCP.

ItsJustASimpleLine Tue 29-Oct-19 12:51:05

You need to push for this my niece was refused one at first application, it went straight through at appeal. (she has a disability)

My basic understanding is they can put measures in place and manage the needs of child and therefore don't think its necessary however if funding or resources come under pressure then without an EHCP they are not obligated to keep up any measures put in place.

I understand the EHCP helps release money to the school but I imagine its not enough.

They are also usual for new/supply teachers coming in. This has been a problem with my niece as new staff do not know her needs and it has caused problems.

Best of luck

Norestformrz Tue 29-Oct-19 13:34:41

What are the extent of your child's learning difficulties? How far behind his peers is he?
The reality is that children with multiple difficulties are being turned down by LAs.
I've recently had a child turned down on the grounds that her needs are medical not educational (not the case although she does have significant medical needs that require constant supervision).
Paediatricians seem to be under the impression that a diagnosis of autism opens the floodgates for funding it doesn't (speaking as the mother of an autistic son and a SENCo).

Bluetac19 Tue 29-Oct-19 13:48:08

I'm a primary teacher. Most EHCPs are turned down and the school often knows which ones won't be successful. A diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean an EHCP will go through.

helterskelter3 Tue 29-Oct-19 13:58:18

It is a huge amount of work to get an EHCP through and most of them are rejected.
I have 3 children (diagnosed) with autism in my class, 1 has an EHCP, the other 2 don’t because their needs can be managed within the class by me making adjustments for them. The reality is that if your child is independent in terms of toileting (and I have seen non-independent children refused EHCPs), can get their own coat on and is around/a year behind age-related expectations, they won’t get an EHCP.
The diagnosis is really helpful for the school as it provides reports that give expert recommendations on how that individual child needs supporting. Good luck.

SpaghettiSharon Tue 29-Oct-19 13:58:20

Sadly this is a funding thing. The education system is collapsing under the pressure of funding SEN and EHCPs have made this worse. It's a national scandal that more is not being channelled into schools to help the most vulnerable students we have sad.

Soontobe60 Tue 29-Oct-19 13:59:22

Senco here. A school can apply for a needs assessment which may or may not lead to an EHCP from the LA. Parents and other professionals can also put in an application. (Including the paediatrician!)
A diagnosis of ASD doesn't automatically mean a child will need an EHCP. If a school is able to meet a child's needs without an EHCP they won't apply for one. In my La, the school has to prove that they need to spend over £6k to support the child. I have many children on the SEN register who don't have one but we still produce pupil passports for staff, and APDR documents to identify any interventions that take place.
Our LA are constantly writing to consultants to remind them what the Code of Practice says about EHCP applications!

treeglass Tue 29-Oct-19 14:39:54

He struggles more with emotions, communication, attention, can't sit still and focus etc
Will meltdown if he's overwhelmed
The school have been quite helpful, we had a terrible year of reception, violent outbursts And stuff, They put things in place and he has settled more this year. He's under for all his expectations in learning but he is getting there
I just don't want him to be overlooked or the support to slip because he doesn't have a diagnosis yet and there's no ECHP in place.
I have a meeting coming up with Senco and I'm sure they can put my fears at rest, it's the paediatrician that's confused me as he thinks he should have one, he said he doesn't need a diagnosis for one but the school won't do it themselves I have to push them.

OP’s posts: |
Norestformrz Tue 29-Oct-19 14:54:22

He doesn't need to have a diagnosis to require an ECHP but he does need to have needs that can't be met by normal classroom adjustments. My LA is insisting on schools showing they've spent £6k from their notional budget and that there's an educational need in addition to other needs.
It's a nightmare for parents and the school.

Harleyisme Tue 29-Oct-19 15:00:15

My sons school can prove they have been spending £600 a week on my ds yet still say that he won't get a ehcp i have applied myself.

supercatlady Tue 29-Oct-19 15:02:05

He will only get an EHCP if he needs more than the school can provide from their own resources.
It's not about diagnosis, it's about what support he needs.
Just as the SEN team wouldn't tell the paediatrician what medication to prescribe, it's not for them to say whether he needs an EHC plan.

Norestformrz Tue 29-Oct-19 16:28:41

I've had three parents who applied themselves turned down this term.

Foxyloxy1plus1 Tue 29-Oct-19 17:13:48

I really wish doctors wouldn’t make demands about what education professionals can or should do. They don’t know how the system works. Why should they; they’re doctors? But it’s annoying when they set up an expectation about another profession that can’t then be fulfilled.

supercatlady Tue 29-Oct-19 18:50:39

I really wish doctors wouldn’t make demands about what education professionals can or should do. They don’t know how the system works. Why should they; they’re doctors? But it’s annoying when they set up an expectation about another profession that can’t then be fulfilled.

^^
This

cauliflowersqueeze Tue 29-Oct-19 18:54:43

Yes I agree.

Imagine it the other way around.

iamNOTmagic Tue 29-Oct-19 19:04:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bobisbored Tue 29-Oct-19 19:10:58

The process is hellishly expensive. In our area, school has to prove that the child is at least 2 years behind their peers academically or developmentally otherwise it won't be considered.

spanieleyes Tue 29-Oct-19 19:28:37

Sencos do get to know which applications will get through and which will be turned down , it comes with hard won experience!
I've never had any of the ones I've applied for rejected because I know how bad things need to be before they will be acceptedangry

Grasspigeons Tue 29-Oct-19 19:29:27

I dont think all schools are equal when it comes to their SEND support arrangements and applying for ehcps. I think at this stage the school is saying to you they are managing your child adequetly within their notional budget which is why they wont apply. I would therefore be looking for very good notes evidencing everthing they are doing to support your child written in the plan, do, review format, and a costed provision map if possible. The reason i'd want this is that in 2 years time it may be clear that an ehcp is needed and you already have done a lot of the legwork in evidencing why a needs assessment is needed. I'd also be asking myself are they managing him adequetly in your opinion. The problem with autism is if they are 'fine in school' its hard for the school to see or even believe that what they are doing isnt adequete. Is there a need for OT involvement or speech and language for instance.

Lonecatwithkitten Tue 29-Oct-19 19:50:51

I think my DSiS' journey with my nephew will give you a good idea of how tough it is. My DN got a DAMP diagnosis in year 3, school insisted that he needed a special school, but refused to apply for an EHCP.
In year 5 his diagnosis was changed to autism again school refused to apply for an EHCP, my DSiS applied independently to the LA, she was turned down, she appealed that decision the appeal was botched and took over a year to be fully heard, but they did agree to an EHCP. This was just as he started senior school.
The EHCP was done, but then the funding committee turned down the funding for the recommended 24 hours one to one. She appealed the funding, this appeal took 6 months to be heard, but was approved three days before the start of this term. It has taken over 4 years to get the EHCP and funding that he needs and frankly it has nearly broken her.
It should not be this hard and it should not nearly destroy people, but this is the current system.

Onceuponatimethen Tue 29-Oct-19 19:54:20

Contact a Family helpline are great for advice on this kind of thing

Norestformrz Tue 29-Oct-19 20:12:42

The three rejected ECHP requests from parents were supported by SENDIASS (two by family support ) the whole thing feels like a lottery.
I feel if the people making the decisions actually saw the children and their struggles they might not be so quick to reject requests.

spanieleyes Tue 29-Oct-19 20:17:22

Just to add to the joys of being a SENCO, SALT assessments in my local area are now carried out by telephone! Can you imagine HOW this is going to workconfused

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