Notting Hill schools - Wetherby/Norland/NHP et al

[2yearoldbattler]

Hi MNers - we are slowly starting to think about where to send DS who will start next September. Would love to hear views on both the major Notting Hill preps/pre preps as well as state schools (other than Fox as we are not in catchment there).

DS has confirmed places at Norland, Wetherby (pembridge Square) and NHP where we have paid the deposit (cough) to keep the option open. We would consider state if there was a good option. DS also has a little sister so would like views on pembridge et al as she’ll be right behind him and would like a solution that works for both kids without overly complicated logistics.

TIA

[JoJoSM2]

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/find-a-school-in-england

This could be a good starting point for state schools to see which ones are near, how academic they are + some other stats.

[2yearoldbattler]

Thanks jojo, that’s a helpful link

Was hoping there might be some local Notting hill MNers who had been through similar decision making in the last couple of years - but perhaps not.

[MMmomDD]

It’s too broad a question that is impossible to answer.
These are all good scholars with different (+)s and (-)s. You will find happy and less happy people in either of them. And no one school is best for all kids.
Personally - I’d pick Wetherby/ Pembridge Hall combination if I had kids of different genders.
First of all - at 4yo boys and girls are quite different and difficult to teach together effectively to not have one or the other gender disadvantaged.

Secondly - exam system boys7/8+ &13+ vs girls11+ makes it structurally hard to teach well for those. Co-ed schools struggle with that and parents of boys in coed have to supplement a lot of they want to do 7/8+.

[2yearoldbattler]

Thanks MM

Would love some insight into +-s from those who have made the comparison. For example I am actually worried about the single sex element of Wetherby/pembridge - it seems very young to separate them and mr snell is (quite frankly) very much a “boy’s boy” in a fairly old fashioned way (at least from my interactions with him). And it would be nice for DS and DD to be at school together! Am also wondering whether I’m better off putting my son somewhere that goes to 13 and then having him sit CE rather than having to jump through all the 7/8+ hoops which look horrific from where I’m sitting.

I love the ethos of NHP but am wondering how it will fare post jane Cameron.

[MMmomDD]

Thing is - even if you decide for your boy to stay till 13+ - the girls in the class will have to be prepped for 11+ exams and it’s unclear how a school can teach half of the class to an exam that is at a different time and half of the class who isn’t taking that same exam. And to complicate matters - the boy’s 13+ will in many schools mean a pre-test at 10 or 11.
It’s a complicated web that you aren’t aware of given the age of your children.
It’s a weird system to me - but it’s what we have here.

Another point to consider is that at the age 4 boys and girls aren’t ready to learn at the same way. Boys take a lot of teachers attention while girls can be overlooked. At the same time boys’ fine motor skills develop a bit later and they see girls learn to write easier and neater, that can be frustrating. And don’t get me started at ‘boys are better at math’ that seems to be something girls in mixed schools seem to hear and absorb.

In general - if you want to have your kids go through coed all along - there are options of mostly non-very pushy/academic schools. You can do co-Ed to 11 and then move to, say, Harrodian.

However, if you want to try the more ‘academic’ route - sadly there aren’t many choices. Latymer Upper is the only coed academic secondary around. And all other are single sex.
Single sex prep is really the best way to get into them. It’s just a fact, sad as it may be.

I’ll add a few more points for you to consider. Boys who take 7/8+ actually have less stress than when they take 13+. Simply because they are too young to really understand the pressure.
Girls at 11 and boys at 13 feel it a lot more.
Next - given that you have one of each gender - your kids will always see their siblings friends, so the separation of genders won’t be as much - if they end up in single sexual school.
And finally - my (and my friends) kids have been through several local schools and many of them changed HM’s. They come and go and schools adjust and keep going. Dramatic changes parents are afraid of do not materialise.

[JoJoSM2]

Not to derail the thread but I'm in favour of coed education. Things like saying that boys take more attention and girls get overlooked are just stereotyping (but yes, it's possible for some teachers to fall into the trap) and motor skills or other skills develop differently for different individuals whether they are boys or girls and a half decent teacher should be able to teach accordingly.

Depending on your further choices, both boys and girls can sit the 11+ or the 13+. And yes, there's often the pre-test early on anyway.

It sounds you'd really like both children to go to school together and preferably somewhere co-ed and all through (no 11 or 13+ but you can always go down that route if you decide that a different school would be a better fit later). I don't know West London much but in South London, The Royal Russell School would offer that, or Claremont Fan Court in Esher (in he commuter belt). IMO, also a nicer experience for children with large campuses and lots of outside time and co-curricular opportunities. I wonder if there's somewhere similar that commutable from Notting Hill?

[JoJoSM2]

Oh, Alleyns is pretty central, coed and all through although still too far from Notting Hill.

[2yearoldbattler]

Thanks! Super helpful. I actually like single sex for secondary, but had always thought it would be better to be co ed at primary. Will read up on it...

Also hadn’t thought about the implications of having girls and boys in same class with half testing at 11 and the others at 13. Such a bizarre system in the UK!

[MMmomDD]

@JoJoSM2

I am too, in general, for co-ed education and most countries manage to have mixed schools with good results.
However - most countries don’t start education as early as UK does. And at 4 there are objective differences between boys and girls. By 6-7 when other countries start more ‘academic’ tuition - those differences largely disappear.
So - I am not stereotyping.
Before finally accepting there is no real choice for my kids other than single sex, if I wanted an ‘academic’ route - I spent a lot of time researching school results; and talking to teachers and heads of schools in the area.
There is also - obviously - the well known fact that for girls - single sex education leads to better results, especially in STEM subjects. And UK is particularly bad on that aspect of girls education. So for me this was a consideration as well.

In addition to that - there are pragmatic and structural issues to consider - in Kensington/Chelsea area we have the schools we have.
So - academic boys schools have 7/8&13 intake. While all girls schools - both academic and less so - take girls only at 11.

There is ONE mixed academic school, Latymer Upper. It takes kids at 7 and 11. Most boys applying are from boys pre-preps, while girls in the area normally need to get extra tuition as girl preps dont prepare for 7+.
Another mixed school with 11+ is Harrodian. It’s nice and non-pushy, not terribly ‘academic’

Anyway - OP has a nice range of schools on her list. And she is just at the start of her educational journey.
None of the choices one makes are cast in stone and there is fair amount of mobility between schools.

[Geronimo8]

Personally I wouldn't go the pre-prep route if I could avoid it. The kids are less aware but the tutoring and prep if 5/6 year olds is just brutal. Some, especially boys, will still be very immature at that point and won't be ready to sit proper exams. Watching the parents of boys trying to prep them really wasn't pretty. I'd choose a prep and go for 13+ (for a boy). You'll have a far better idea of your child by then and so will the school. This extra two years in prep can be the making of a boy. Ideally I like co-Ed in primary but the system really isn't set up well as girls and boys don't tend to transfer at the same time. If you do go for a co-Ed ores choose one that ends in year 6 and everyone does the same 11+.

[Josuk]

There are almost no schools in the area where OP lives that takes boys at 11+. So if OP goes that way, she’ll have to find a school for two years until 13+ place starts.

I have a lot of friends at Wetherby prep prep. And on balance most are quite happy.
All of the boys are working towards exams, so its normal for them. The curriculum is organised with that in mind, so front loaded vs, say state schools.
Parents are far more stressed at those exams in my observation.
I’d say the extra tutoring and pressure people mention is more common for kids in co-Ed and non pre-preps - who decide to try 7/8+ that their school aren’t set up for. And it’s worst for people who decided to go state to 7/8+ and then transfer to private.
That’s where the gap in material covered by Y2/3 is vast and parents trying to go that route really put their boys under enormous stress.
I’d say that if your kid is in Wetherby - you won’t need to do much (or anything) above what the school does. And it’s a blessing.
The benefit of Wetherby is that they have the prep that goes to 13, and also opened senior school too.
So - as a backup there is an option to stay there all the way through.
(Transfer exams are still there but it’s still less stressful than coming from outside)

In my observation of all my friends with both girls of 11 and boys of 13 - those exams are FAR more stressful. Both kids and adults are under stress. Kids are in midst of (pre)puberty, emotions are all over. And for boys - pre-tests and then individual school specific tests are spread out over a long period of time. Then boys get offers that they sit on for a long period of time and others sit on waiting lists for 1-2years as conditional offers are given up to two years prior to entering Y9.
It’s a convoluted system.

[2yearoldbattler]

I am not convinced about the “prep” aspect of the pre/preps - my nephews are all at Wetherby pre prep at the moment and the eldest has just gone through the 7+ and the entire class was heavily tutored outside of school. So I don’t think you can avoid it really.

But much food for thought on entry and exit points, I shall do some more research. Thank you!

[2yearoldbattler]

Oh and Josuk I do like the fact that they can now stay at Wetherby the whole way through as a backup. It is looking like DS is moderately bright but isn’t everyone these days?!

[JoJoSM2]

If we're looking at day schools near central London, which ones don't take boys at 11+? I honestly can't think of any (just a handful of boarding schools).

OP, if you'd like coed when your children are little followed by single sex, they you probably can't avoid the hot housing and stress of 11 or 13+. If you're open to co-ed, then Harrodian could be a good shout as it's probably quite commutable for you? Whilst it's considered less academic, it does teach children to achieve 8's and 9's at GCSE + secures Oxbridge places.
I'd be bothered by lack of proper grounds and sporting successes but don't want to be projecting if that isn't the top of your list.

[Geronimo8]

In our London pre-prep they were all heavily tutored by the middle of year 1. The head will tell you differently. They all do. But it's utter rubbish and they know it. I wish they'd just be honest. If they are pre-prep feeding academic preps almost all will be tutored be it by parents or a professional tutor.

[JoJoSM2]

Or if you fancied exploring single-sex all-though schools, then GDST have lots of options for girls.

I’ve only ever tutored children for 11+ but imagine that with 7+ parents wouldn’t want to take any chances so I’d expect it’s no different.

[2yearoldbattler]

Geronimo that’s certainly what parents with older kids tell me. I figure if they have to be tutored anyway they might as well have a nice time at school!

[2yearoldbattler]

Oh and if he were to do the 7/8+ I have always vaguely thought that we’d try to get him into Westminster precisely so he didn’t have to do it all again later. Obv he’d have to be pretty academic for that tho!

[JoJoSM2]

If you'd like your son to be at Westminster/St Paul's/King's from 7 anyway, then you could as well put him in the most hot housey prep prep you can get into + do extra at home.

[2yearoldbattler]

I clearly haven’t thought it through properly at all jojo . I hate the idea of hot housing kids at ages 4/5/6/7. My son loves reading and books but he’s also obsessed with music and dance and climbing things ( 🙄 ) and running around like a loon in the park. It just seems so intense to put them into these environments at not even 5 years old.

[MMmomDD]

OP - don’t believe sweeping statements of ‘entire class was heavily tutored’ is heavily tutored, etc.
People use these to justify their own choices. My kids weren’t tutored, for eg. I did extra exam practice with them on my own. And people, most likely, thought mine were heavily tutored too.

[JoJoSM2]

OP, to be fair to Westminster, they do have a fab co-curricular provision. My experience is with 11+ not 7+ but for the older children, I could see straight away if someone is cut out for one of these very academic schools (very bright, loved learning, usually a competitive personality). However, a large number of children applying for these schools are not quite there and do need tutoring/hot housing. Maybe your boy does or maybe he doesn’t.
However, there’s also a lot to be said for schools that have a mixture of bright and average children. Many of them are brilliant at looking after the able ones and get them 9’s and Oxbridge offers etc The environment is unlikely to feel nearly as pressured or competitive and often better for children’s self esteem.
So don’t despair if you don’t get Westminster (but I do realise it’s upsetting not to get the first choice school).

[2yearoldbattler]

Oh I’m not worried and I don’t think we can really tell what kind of academic (or not) he’s going to be yet - plenty of time for that!

[newmummycwharf1]

Also aren't Westminister and St Pauls scrapping the CE for entrance anyway. So it will just be the pre-test and school specific interview presumably? It would mean co-ed could well work - both sexes would be prepping to exit at the same time

[newmummycwharf1]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/09/29/britains-oldest-school-exam-scrapped-amid-diversity-drive-private/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1106840&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Loy_Dig_Tri_LiftigniterReg45&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Loy_Dig_Tri_LiftigniterReg4520190930&utm_campaign=DM1106840