Two school runs, not working!

[drspouse]

Last year our DCs' school which is 5 minutes walk from our house told us that DS (just started Y3) could no longer continue there. He has behavioural needs and they felt he wasn't learning.
While we felt that they could have done a lot more for him, and that they had made up their minds that he wasn't going to flourish, and he was NOT happy about moving school, we did not want him at a school that wasn't prepared to help him.
He's moved to a small village primary school 15 minutes' drive away and so far it's going well.
The school is oversubscribed and has no place for DD, and as he is working with younger children some of the time, it wouldn't be good for her to go there as she'd be in the same class as him some of the time anyway (she's in Y1, and he works in the combined Y1/Y2 class for part of the time).
But the school runs are a nightmare.

In the morning DD is booked into breakfast club every day. Probably 3 or 4 days a week DH WFH and we could in theory do two school runs. But so far we've tried to keep to the regular routine of DD up to breakfast club, DS walks with whoever is taking her, and then DS in the car to school.

DD isn't happy - she doesn't want to dash out the door early for breakfast, she wants a relaxed breakfast at home.
DS isn't happy - he doesn't want to walk up to school in the rain with DD when he doesn't even go there any more.
And we're not happy - we don't want the DCs unhappy!
This morning it took 20 minutes to get DD out of the door. DH suggested taking her later (so 1st breakfast at home, then 2nd breakfast at breakfast club) but if we put that off for 30 minutes and then she resists going out for 20 minutes, we will be late for DS school.

End of the day is not much better - DD in theory gets out 20 minutes before DS so we can take her home and then pick him up - but DH who has mainly done these days reports that the let out time is so variable that he's going to be late sooner or later, and it's a massive rush.
So we're putting one or other of them in after school clubs most days, which again DD isn't happy about - she just wants Mummy or Daddy to pick her up.
And I want to be able to talk to her friends' parents, arrange playdates etc. I have 3 families' numbers but they are all very busy/tired/non-responsive and poor DD keeps nagging me to go to X's house.

Previously someone suggested a CM but this doesn't solve the problem of DD, quite reasonably, wanting to have her breakfast at home like her brother/her parents/a normal person.

It also doesn't help with pickup as I don't think any of the CMs will be closer than school to our house - so she might as well just go to after school club! There was a lovely CM with a DC in DS' former class who actually walks past our house but she has closed her business.

[mankyfourthtoe]

I think you said you both work from home so tbh I'd do a school run each. It's neither of your children's fault this has happened.

[drspouse]

No, DH works in the office 1 or 2 days most weeks, sometimes more, and I work in the office 2-3 days per week.
Some weeks it can be one of us at home every day, some it can be neither of us (DH's office is too far for him to do school runs on the days he goes to the office - he will often leave at 6 am - mine I can drop at school and make it for 9.10 and then take a shorter lunch).

[endofthelinefinally]

Split forces and do a school run each.
Is there some reason why you can't do that?

[endofthelinefinally]

Sorry Xpost.

[mankyfourthtoe]

Would your ds do breakfast club at his new school?

[mankyfourthtoe]

How upset would your dd be if she was late for school? Only saying as if a school has kicked my child out then that's what I'd do (or want to do)

[endofthelinefinally]

I think you have to carry on with breakfast club, but nobody eats breakfast at home. Both DC in car to breakfast club, packed breakfast for DS to eat en route once DD has been dropped at school.
On the days both parents available, one parent takes DD to school, other parent takes DS.
It is easy enough to do a packed breakfast if you do rolls, pancakes, anything that can be eaten with fingers. Take some wipes to clean up.

It seems to be the fact that everyone else is having breakfast at home that is the problem.

[user1474894224]

Can you take it in turns with BF club? Have your son in 2 days a week and daughter 3 days? Or something similar. Then they both have to go early some days.

[drspouse]

Would your ds do breakfast club at his new school?

He probably would, but we'd still have to take DD there if only one of us was home, it's 15 mins each way, so longer out of our morning, and 30 minutes (plus faffing time at the school) when DD isn't at home being cosy. And we then miss talking to DS' teacher and 1:1.
Also, DS school is on my way to work so if it's me in the office, that's doubling back and going over part of that route again which is a pain.

How upset would your dd be if she was late for school?
This is so tempting - and it wouldn't be every day. She would not be bothered at all! DH would take a LOT of persuading. It would still mean 15 mins driving DS to school, 15 mins back, then taking DD in so she'd be about 20 mins late those days.
We are definitely going to ask if we can pick her up 10 mins early (i.e. on time plus a 5 minute safety margin, because they usually let them out 5 mins late) on days when we don't have after school club booked and have to pick them both up. But that somehow seems different.

[NoSquirrels]

I think both DC need to go to breakfast club. Despite expense and inconvenience and protests.

Your schedule seems too variable to do anything else with regularity.

For pick-up, not sure...

[drspouse]

That would certainly make it "fair" but we would not be able to talk to DS' class teacher (unless she is in extra early) or 1:1. Nor would we be able to talk to DD's class teacher or her friends' parents.

It wouldn't solve any of the other problems - one DC would still have to go with the other to take them to breakfast club, and they would still complain they didn't want to leave the house. It wouldn't get anyone to work on time who isn't already getting to work on time, either.

[drspouse]

Sorry, pressed post too soon.
We don't NEED both DCs to go to breakfast club, one is enough.

[drspouse]

It's like the fox, the goose and the grain, isn't it?

[Raphael34]

You’re turning this into a huge drama when it isn’t op. Children need to learn they can’t have it all their own way all of the time. Dd wants to have lazy breakfasts at home in the morning? Well tough really. And at 5 years old she shouldn’t be given the option of refusing to leave the house for 20 minutes. Just pick her up and put her in the car! Having children in different schools is just an obstacle you have to deal with. A child having to attend breakfast or after school clubs is not a big deal whether it’s their preference or not. They’re both old enough to understand the situation, you can’t be in two places at once. I’ve got 3 children in 3 different schools. Dd1 in secondary has to get up at 6am as the bus journey takes nearly an hour and a half (only 11 miles but through inner city traffic). Dd2 has to leave early go to breakfast club as there’s only 2 buses an hour to her school, the one we catch gets her there 25 minutes early, the next one would make her at least 10 minutes late. My ds is in afternoon nursery as that’s all that was available, but he gets dragged out of bed early every morning to take dd2 to school, he has to catch 4 buses a day with me to do the nursery/primary runs. I have to catch 6-8 buses a day depending if there are any after school clubs for dd2. None of us would prefer to do this, but we do because we have to

[drspouse]

There is no car to her school. It's 5 minutes walk. I can't carry her to school. I definitely can't carry DS. What a ridiculous suggestion.

Your DC at secondary age can get themselves there. Mine can't.

[Raphael34]

Yes my secondary child can get herself to school. Your post was about your dd not wanting to leave early though. My dd doesn’t want to leave at 7am. She has to though. And my 2 younger children can’t get themselves to school. Again they’d prefer not to leave early and my dd would prefer not to go to breakfast club, she does because she has to. I’ve misunderstood about the car. I still think it’s ridiculous you can’t get a 5 year old out of the door though, especially if the school is just a 5 minute walk away. We’d love the luxury of a 5 minute walk to school rather than a 10 minute walk to the bus stop, usually around a ten minute wait and then a 15 minute bus journey to the primary/nursery. I didn’t mean to sound harsh but you’re getting really upset over what should be a non issue really. If you can’t get there on time then what’s your other options? It’s not like you’re leaving her there for hours before and after school. It makes no odds whether she has breakfast at home or at school, and after school clubs are generally enjoyable

[LoveWine123]

I also think you need to realize that you can't please everyone all the time. We all would like nice, slow leisurely start to the day with breakfast at home with the whole family, but the reality is you don't have that luxury. Most people don't have that luxury so just create a permanent plan that works the best logistically and stick to it. The children will adapt. The worst thing to do is to offer them options that you can't sustain in the long term.

[NoSquirrels]

It’s the lack of ‘fairness’ though that is causing your DD to kick off.

And I’m not surprised your DS doesn’t want to walk to school and back.

Your schedules with work are unpredictable. Children like routine and predictability and when it changes day to day - AND when one is seemingly ‘punished’ for their sibling needing to change school - then problems you mention will happen almost inevitably.

So I’d think this was my inconvenience as an adult to solve not my children’s to facilitate, iyswim.

Both in breakfast club means one car journey- drop off DD, drop off DS.

Talking with teacher and 1-1 - perhaps you can make a Friday or a Monday or another predictable day one where DS doesn’t do breakfast club so you can catch his teachers but DOES do afterschool club so you can pick up DD and have time to talk to her teachers.

Can your work or your DH’s work happen on predictable office days instead of randomly /flexibly? If you were in earlier at work every day could you WFH every afternoon?

Ultimately you’re expecting to not change YOUR routines but to get the DC to accommodate it, and that’s not likely to work well. Or that’s my take on it, anyway - you cannot have everything you need so which parts are less essential?

[drspouse]

Both in breakfast club means one car journey- drop off DD, drop off DS.

We can't drop near/at DD's school - it's 5 mins walk but there's no parking nearer than our house as it's on a main road. DD's breakfast club unfortunately HAS to be on foot. She is also objecting to having to have breakfast out of the house, so it's not just the fairness though I'm sure that's part of it. I know she'd object if they both went to breakfast club too!

My office days can be predictable but that wouldn't help - and DH's can't - he has to go when there is a meeting, some of which are in London (we are NW). He can go other days but he can't control when there are meetings and given the length of the commute he is just spending loads of money to get up early, sit on the train (or stand on a wet platform waiting for Northern Fail) and hope he gets a hotdesk! He's encouraged to work from home when he can (due to lack of desks... public sector).

I'm not sure what more we can change about our routines (in fact, we have changed them - DH is trying to WFH on more days and do some meetings by Skype but he can't do all of them that way - and I am driving to work and arriving a little later and cutting short my lunch hour rather than getting the bus which was quick and direct and if I dropped off both DCs on time, got me there on time). We're dragging the DCs out early, both of them (just as painful for us as them, I can assure you).

Frankly I'd say that less essential is:
DD getting to school on time every day and staying till the end every day
DS staying till the end of school every day (but picking him up early won't help unless it was half an hour because his finish time is 20 mins later).
But I doubt the schools would agree.
Me getting to work dead on time (but that's already gone out of the window) and getting a full lunch hour.

Breakfast club every day for DD and after school club for both of them also means that we never have time to do reading with DD and they are both too knackered to do any reading or homework at the end of the day too.

So the school's decision is impacting on DD's education as well as her wellbeing, frankly.

[drspouse]

If you were in earlier at work every day could you WFH every afternoon?

Sorry I missed that one but it still wouldn't help us as we can't rely on picking them both up on time. One or both would still have to go to after school club, because of DD's school not letting them out at a consistent time.

I also forgot to say that because of having to get to DS' school in the village for an earlier after school club time, rather than the other school's later pick up time, I have to leave work a little earlier if I'm doing that end of the day (again, meaning I have to cut short my lunch hour).

DH working from home more DOES help with after school club pickup, to be fair, in that he can get DS and I can get DD and I don't have to leave work quite so early every day.
But as he can't WFH every day or reliable days, it doesn't help with dropoff.

[endofthelinefinally]

You really could do with someone taking dd to school.
Would the ex- childminder you mentioned maybe do that one task for you for a small fee? Or maybe try and find another parent at the school for a similar arrangement?

[drspouse]

It’s not like you’re leaving her there for hours before and after school.

She's in breakfast club, school, and after school club from 7.30 am to 5.55 pm some days. That's 10 1/2 hours. I don't spend that long at work! She's 5!

I think you also missed the bit where I said my DS had moved school due to SEN and behavioural needs. Getting him out of the house is not a picnic. We'd rather make it as easy as possible on both of them as we do not want to get into the territory of school refusal.

it's all very well to say "but they have to", but DD already gets second best of absolutely everything, especially individual attention, due to DS' needs. It is just not fair on her to have her childhood like this. I'm willing to bet everyone on here who had a sibling with SEN will understand.

[drspouse]

You really could do with someone taking dd to school.

I did think of that but I'm not sure how that would work. We have to leave earlier for DS' school than DD would normally leave for school. What would a CM do between picking her up and dropping her if it's 5 mins walk, do you think? Would they be willing to wait in the playground even if it's raining?

It would still mean I can never talk to DD's teacher or her friends' parents but it would at least mean she's not out of the house for 10+ hours.

[NoSquirrels]

So DD has to go to breakfast club, and has to accept that. On the flip side, could DS go to afterschool club every day instead?

DD gets picked up every day, you see her teachers and chance to connect with other parents.

DS you see teachers in the morning.

[drspouse]

We can't pick her up every day - neither of us can finish at 3 every day, nor can we make up 5 days of finishing at 3 between us.
DS starts to lose the plot about 4pm if he's in care all day every day (as proven during the school holidays, when the holiday club would call us regularly about that time).
He can probably do 3 days a week of after school club without us straying into exclusion territory. At least two of those have to be days we both have to work till 5 (ish, and my employer is being pretty generous here).
So we can manage one day a week when he's in after school club and she isn't. Which is better than zero, but still isn't great.

It would, really, be better for DD to get to school some other way, at a reasonable hour, we'd have the morning reading/checkin time. I can't think what the ex-CM would do with her if she did dropoff though!