Corbyn pledges to abolish KS1 and 2 SATs

[noblegiraffe]

If Labour get elected, Corbyn says that he will abolish primary school SATs.

“Instead, Labour would introduce alternative assessments which would be based on "the clear principle of understanding the learning needs of every child."”

I’m sure some on here would think that this is a great idea, but to me it sounds like a poorly thought-out headline grabber that will cause more problems than it solves. What then for school accountability at primary and secondary? What on earth does he mean by ‘alternative assessments’ (sounds like a ‘we’ll fill in the details of that later’ policy that will be a total bodge job).

Wales went down this route and their educational standards have gone in totally the wrong direction.

I’m sure that they should be less high stakes and not allowed to distort the Y6 curriculum the way they do (tales of breakfast and Easter revision sessions for 11 year olds are horrifying) but am unconvinced that ditching them is a positive move for education.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47950985

[Helix1244]

Ks1 sats are being scrapped anyway.
I do agree op and think the sats give the schools (parents and kids) a standard to aim for.
I have definitely done more practice for maths with dc1 recently to hopefully pass the ks1 sats - to bring up to the standard of the year group

[Myothercarisalsoshit]

SATs are stressful, time consuming and provide little more than a snapshot of a child’s ability in a particular test on a particular day. OFSTED base their inspections completely on SATs results so a school is judged on the ability of one cohort of children. It’s high stakes stuff and lots of schools game the system, turning year six into a joyless experience for children, parents and teachers. Schools assess children continually. Teachers know exactly how children are performing. The problem is that SATs have been used as an indicator of school quality. Teachers are no longer trusted to do their jobs. It’s a ridiculous system. Schools should be about educating the whole child. No wonder that one fifth of teachers are looking to resign in the next two years.

[noblegiraffe]

Teachers know exactly how children are performing.

Teacher assessment is notoriously subjective and a poor substitute for external assessment.

[alwaystimeforcakeandtea]

I think that the externally marked tests have their place for Year 6 but they should NOT be used in league tables pitting schools against each other. Local Authority comparisons may be useful. The tests should be used to set a standard, a target, an ambition for every child’s primary education but the ‘pass’ level should be achievable by a far larger majority of pupils (with a higher pass level, if we must). I think they should be limited to Reading and Maths. No writing or SPAG/GPS.

[Myothercarisalsoshit]

noblegiraffe
Well ok ... and secondary schools complain that children’s achievements in ks2 sats don’t reflect the children they see in Y7. Add to that the fact that many MATs have been found to be cheating in their assessments. They’re not fit for purpose.

[noblegiraffe]

many MATs have been found to be cheating in their assessments.

Of course they have. Make them high stakes, and then put the people they are judging in charge of administering them and this is inevitable.

But Corbyn says they’ll be replaced with other assessments as yet unspecified.

Teacher assessment discriminates against disadvantaged pupils and ethnic minorities, so this would be unacceptable.

[KissingInTheRain]

The difficulty Corbyn’s got is that even if he has a good idea nobody will ever believe it’s any good...because it’s from him.

In this case I agree that’s it’s unlikely to be a good idea anyway. Still, at least it doesn’t involve opining for hours about workers’ rights in rural Chile or the iniquities of US foreign policy.

[noblegiraffe]

He apparently got roaring support at the NEU conference from teachers. Maybe they’ll have some ideas of what to replace the SATs with that won’t be awful or useless.

[YourSarcasmIsDripping]

Teacher assessment discriminates against disadvantaged pupils and ethnic minorities, so this would be unacceptable.

Have there been studies on this? Not being a dick,just not my experience so far . I can understand though how it could happen.

[Myothercarisalsoshit]

High stakes assessment discriminates against disadvantaged children and ethnic minorities far more than teacher assessment. An inspection and league table system based on SATs discriminates against them even more.

[noblegiraffe]

Links to research about how teacher assessment is biased in this blog post: thewingtoheaven.wordpress.com/2015/10/11/tests-are-inhuman-and-that-is-what-so-good-about-them/

Apart from this major flaw, teacher assessment couldn’t possibly used as a school accountability measure. So would Labour scrap school accountability measures?

I don’t think they have any sort of plan, otherwise they’d have articulated it.

[Pieceofpurplesky]

In his speech he said he would work with teachers and parents to see what the best form of assessment for both of them was. He said he wanted to get away from teaching to the test and having a well rounded curriculum.

[noblegiraffe]

FGS he really said he would ask around for some good ideas?

No looking at the evidence?

[Pieceofpurplesky]

He said 'labour would consult' teachers and parents. At least he plans on talking to people who know! Even a different form of test would be better than the current SATs. Almost like a portfolio of work across the year.

[ineedaholidaynow]

I am sure asking parents and teachers will probably get exactly the same results as voting on Brexit in Parliament is getting, no-one will agree on the same thing.

Abolishing SATS is probably a great sound bite and he is obviously trying to get more votes with it, but it will probably end up with SATS just with a different name.

[AlunWynsKnee]

Maybe they’ll have some ideas of what to replace the SATs with that won’t be awful or useless.
Is it such a radical idea to consult with professionals to see what they think?

[noblegiraffe]

At least he plans on talking to people who know!

But he won’t. He’ll get people banging on about how teachers know the pupils best - and as I posted upthread, research shows teacher assessment is biased in a way that external assessment isn’t.

And any teacher that says ‘oh we should go for teacher assessment and portfolios of work’ would be shooting themselves in the foot and increasing their workload massively at a time when we really can’t afford to be increasing teacher workload (and losing teachers because of it).

Do people not remember APP? I think this is a major problem with the huge turnover of teachers tbh.

[AlunWynsKnee]

Except you're a teacher and you have a view. There will be plenty of teachers with views and memories.
The stuff that is tested in the SPaG SAT is ridiculous. Maths and Reading less so.

[YourSarcasmIsDripping]

Thank you for that link noble.

[noblegiraffe]

Yes but, Alun had he consulted me, he wouldn’t be announcing that he’s ‘scrapping SATs’.

Reforming, overhauling maybe. But if he has announced that he is scrapping SATs then he can’t very well consult with the sorts of teachers who then say he needs to replace them with some sort of Standardised Assessment Test. He’ll have to consult with people who give him something different.

[YourSarcasmIsDripping]

Again not being a dick ,but that study is from 1990. I'm sure it's accurate but given the shift in understanding SEN ,behaviour and socio-economic factors I wonder if it's still valid. I could be ofc be very naive.

I work (TA)in a very deprived school. Half of my class is on pupil premium and 6 have SEN. We'd shoot ourselves in the foot if we assessed like that study suggests.




That being said, any arbitrary,random ,every couple of years test will eventually become the SATS. With the same pressure, schools trying to outdo each other and so on. Same shit,different wrapper, still not a chocolate.

In my (not born or educated) here view I wonder if regular tests (of less impact) ,every end of term for example, would be more beneficial. There would be too many of them and too many variables to set schools against each other, kids would get tested regularly,be used to it and also gaps would be apparent quicker. There would be no "you need x at greater depth and y at expected" or questions why x is lower than he was(because they fucking put him high just like you asked them to do).

Sorry just ranting now.

[noblegiraffe]

I think the most depressing thing about this is that it’s just more using education as a political football. Bounce from Gove and his KS2 overhaul to Corbyn and whatever he manages to come up with on the back of a fag packet between now and an election.

I remember Tim Farron doing a webchat on here and saying that he would set up an independent group to run education and take it out of the hands of politicians. What we really need is a period of stability.

But I think the Lib Dems have now also gone batshit with their new education policy as well. So frustrating.

[AlunWynsKnee]

Fair point but politics mean they'd change them and rename them at a minimum.
As a parent I'd like the SPaG bit dropped. Or at least the naming of parts like fronted adverbials. I learned that in my 40s and it's nothing a love of reading won't better.
It's such a big thing for Y6 children and it shouldn't be.

[noblegiraffe]

Your here’s a study from 2009 that specifically looks at the difference between teacher assessed level and tested level at KS2 for various groups.

www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/cmpo/migrated/documents/wp221.pdf

Teachers have a tendency to underassess student level compared to the level they actually achieve in the test for students belonging to particular ethnic minorities. A clear indication that if we lost the test and kept the teacher assessment, ethnic minorities would be disadvantaged.

[YourSarcasmIsDripping]

Fucks sake .