Primary school mid year appeal

[Munki2004]

Hi,

This is my first post so please be gentle.

Last year i moved my eldest daughter (year2) to a new school. Her sister had just stared reception. I asked if i could move get and was told unfortunately the clad was at maximum compassity (30) then a few weeks later asked again to be told no and that they were taking on a looked after child. A month later another looked after child started brining the class to 32. I know a few parents in that class and a few weeks ago was told one of the original 30 children left the school. I asked the head teacher (for the millionth time) and he advised that he would see what he could do. He said unfortunately he couldn't give the place to my daughter unless the admissions team said he could. I sooner to them and they obviously said that legally they can't etc. But then advised to submit a paper request for the place and that i can do am appeal. Which is what we've done.

Our appeal it's Friday.

My argument is that we are a religious family (its a rural cofe school) her sister is there and outside of school she socialises in clubs with children from this school. Currently she only had a couple of children to play with as the others are bullying her for being small (she's almost 6 and they're saying she's 4 and won't play with her). She's asked every week when she can move and be with her sister.

Does anyone know what our chances are of winning the appeal?
The school do have others wanting a place in what is now year 1.

Also to add i do know the school has gone over the class limit of 30, a recently as last year in my daughter's class where i was advised she took place 30 and then 2 children started after her ending year 2 on 32 children.

Thanks for reading of you have got this far

[Soontobe60]

Honestly, I don't think your reasons to appeal are enough. The class is over full. I'm not sure why you didn't put her name down from the beginning.

[WoWsers16]

I am sorry I too think it will be hard.
Being a sibling- even though that is a good reason- will not guarantee anything.
Yes it has gone over pan- but with looked after children they are high priority. Even with one of the original leaving- they will probably want the numbers back down to 30.
In year 3 there is no maximum pan really- so maybe a better chance when she is in year 3.
Religious wise- have you got a lot of evidence for this? Many people just say they are religious when they aren't - or may have been to church a couple of times xx

[eddiemairswife]

If there are 30 in the class there is very, very little chance of you winning an appeal.

[Munki2004]

Hi yes i have evidence from my church that we worship at and I'm an active member of (help run the toddler group each week) got confirmed there and married last year and also had two of my 3 children baptised there. The church associated with the school we are also active members of and both vicars have given supporting letters (the associated school a very strong case on our behalf) and also from associated church their youth support worker who helps run the family events. Both vicars gave signed and sent letters and sent email copies to me.

[Lougle]

None of those reasons will win your appeal because your appeal is an Infant Class Size Prejudice appeal, sorry. Under the law, these appeals can only be won if a mistake has been made in the admissions process that would otherwise have resulted in awarding your child a place, or if the decision not to admit is unreasonable (in the legal sense).

No matter how nice it would be for your children to go to the same school, infant classes cannot go above 30 unless certain criteria (such as looked after children) are met, and if children leave, they must bring the number back down towards 30 as quickly as possible. For that reason, arguing that they have been above 30 in the past, which is a great argument in a Key Stage 2 (year 3+) appeal, does not work for an Infant Class Size Prejudice appeal.

Sorry to be so negative.

[admission]

Firstly I am wondering from your original post whether your child is in year 2 now or year 3 now because it would make an enormous difference to the potential success at appeal.
Schools with infant classes are bound by the infant class size regulations which limit the class size to 30 pupils with one school teacher.There are however some exceptions to that rule and schools are required to admit pupils who are looked after children, no matter the number in the classroom. That is why the class size got to 32. However the regulations then say that no further pupils can be admitted until the class size is below 30, in other words when 3 pupils have left that year group.
In terms of any appeal, the infant class size regulations also have an effect on them in that the only real reason for a panel admitting a further pupil to a class with 30 in it is if at the original time of asking for a place, a mistake was made and your child should have been admitted. That is why other posters have said you chance of being offered a place is very low.
If however your child is actually in year 3, then non of the regulations apply and it is for the panel to decide whether you have a stronger case to admit your child then the school have not to admit. I question this because your post does not suggest that the admission authority have sent you papers for the appeal that say that it is an infant class size case, which made me wonder whether your child is actually in year 3 now.
If your child is in year 2, then I would suggest that you still go to appeal and that you mount the strongest case possible because you never know what might happen at the appeal. Something might get revealed which means that the panel do favour application for admission.

[GoldenSyrupLion]

Sorry, I dont think you'll be successful.

[Munki2004]

Admission. My eldest is I year 3 at the school I'm appealing to. When she was I year 2 there last year 2 children who i do believe aren't party of the special circumstances started after her. I was told by the school she had taken the 30th and only place available. So they have gone over for none special circumstances. I done to one parent and she didn't appeal she was just allocated a place. My daughter in appealing for is in year 1 currently.

When i called the admissions team at the council they advised to go through the paper trail of applying for a place and then down the appeal route. I also had a senior member of staff telling me we'd get through on appeal which is obviously miss leading and a bit naughty of them to say. We know our chances are slim but we obviously have a duty to our dd to try on her behalf. I have no issues doing two school runs i knew it was somethingi would have to do before moving dd1. Ours hard work but I'd do anything for my children's education and most importantly happiness and well-being

[Lougle]

I think it's the the DD who is already at the new school who is now in year 3, @admission. The OP is giving the example of that class going over number by 2, to 32, to set precedence for an expansion in the year 1 class that she would like her year 1 DD who is not at the school to go into. So the appeal would still be an ICS appeal. That class was at 32, but is now at 31 because a child left recently, but it had taken an additional 2 LAC.

[Lougle]

X-posted with you there, Munki. If you can recall exactly who told you that you would get through on appeal, it can't hurt to tell the panel that. It would be even better if you had that in writing.

[shouldwestayorshouldwego]

The other children coming in yr2 could have been admitted due to the fair access protocol under which an LEA has to find a school place within a reasonable distance. If you move to an area then they can make a school take an extra child so they have a place.

For dd2 I would try to play down the chance of moving, it could be not until yr3, and even then no guarantee. Obviously hopefully it will be sooner but 18+months seems forever at that age. I would however be talking to her existing school about the bullying and building her resilience.

I really hope it goes your way though on Friday.

[Munki2004]

Thank you all for the comments. We kind of know it's a long shot as other people are interested in a place in that group too. The school don't operate an official waiting list but we were told she was on the top of the unofficial list when her sister joined last year. However I can't not try for her when she knows I did everything I could for her older sister.

[Lougle]

It's not that it's a long shot because other people are interested in that group. You have to understand that an Infant Class Size Prejudice appeal can only succeed by law if the panel finds that there is a place available at the school in question (they aren't full), or that the Admissions Authority made a mistake that cost your child a place that would otherwise have been theirs or that the decision not to admit your child was so unreasonable that no reasonable authority would make such a decision. That's it.

These criteria are so restrictive that a panel can't take into account family circumstances, how much a child will benefit from being with siblings, faith upbringings, or any other social factors. Even quite heartfelt and compelling arguments from parents will fail.

The only things that should get through an ICS appeal are errors and genuinely critical circumstances that make a school choice imperative. Examples are typically a Police Officer who has several 'clients' in their nearest schools, making it unsafe for their child to be placed there, so they need to be placed in school X for safety, but were refused admission due to distance. Another example may be where a relationship has broken down due to extreme domestic violence and there is a restraining order between a couple, and the child of the man goes to school X, which is the catchment school for the child of the woman. The woman applies for school Y and is refused on distance, then appeals on the basis that she cannot be in the same vicinity as the man due to the restraining order.

[Munki2004]

Lougal thank you for explaining that in more detail for me.x

[LIZS]

If it is an infant class size appeal then you will struggle. LAC take priority and rare. exceptions can be made to take a class over 30. No matter how religious you are it is likely your dc will remain on waiting list until class size falls below 30. Is she head of the waiting list now?

[Munki2004]

Apparently they don't do official waiting lists at the school but they know we want a place. Do they have to operate waiting lists for schools?

[LIZS]

State schools should have continued interest lists, a faith school will normally maintain its own

[prh47bridge]

State schools should have continued interest lists, a faith school will normally maintain its own

That is not correct. There must be a waiting list for the normal year of entry (Reception in the case of a primary school) from the time offers are made until the end of the year. They do not have to operate waiting lists outside that. So there is no requirement for a school to have a waiting list for Y1.

Many schools do keep waiting lists. If it is a community school or a VC school the LA may keep a waiting list for them. But some schools only operate a waiting list for the minimum amount of time required by the Admissions Code.

[WoWsers16]

Good luck for tomorrow x

[Munki2004]

Wowsers16 thank you

[GenericHamster]

How was it?