Keeping the whole class in at playtime.

[Wecandothisthing]

Is the above standard practice from year 2?

DD is 6 and has just started year 2. She told me she had to miss 5 mins of playtime yesterday, along with another child, as they didn't stop talking when they were told to. Fair enough. I had a chat with DD about the importance of being quiet when asked and that if every child spent just 5 mins talking when they shouldn't, that would be 2.5hours of excess talking. Also, how it's respectful to the teacher to do as asked.

Anyway, today DD reported that the whole class was kept in today for the whole of playtime as "some of the boys were being disruptive" the day before.

They all had to stay sat on the carpet instead of playtime.

Is the above normal? I'm not going to say anything to the school, but it seems a bit harsh for 6yos who are just getting used to a classroom without provision.

[Racecardriver]

Don't know but that teach sounds masochistic.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

I think keeping a bunch of 6 year olds in for break would be very counter productive.

I also think that give this is effectively their third year in school that the ones who don't know the routine and struggle to be still/quiet are probably not ones who would be able to suddenly do so should they he made to stay in at break.

[MaisyPops]

It depends.
Personally I'm not a fan of whole class sanctions unless every child was involved and 95% of the time that won't be the case.

E.g. Near the end of the lesson, some boys were being disruptive but the class was laughing, students weren't behind their seats, were talking and fussing whilst I dealt with the disruptive students then fair enough to keep everyone in.

E.g. A group of students were disruptive, the others in the class had packed away sensibly having done their work and were stood ready for break then it would be wrong to apply a group sanction.

Most of the time class sanctions are wrong and lead students to resent the member of staff.

[ScarlettDarling]

I don't think it's standard practice, but neither do I agree with the above poster who says the teacher sounds masochistic! I think the punishment is a little harsh, especially if your daughter is correct and only a few of the boys were disruptive. Doesn't seem fair to deprive the whole class of their playtime.

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

Tbh my son needs his breaktimes due to his sensory issues and need to move so would be a nightmare if they did this. It’s one punishment that the school cannot implement with him due to his SEN.

[Wecandothisthing]

My daughter is 6 and although pretty honest (told me about how she'd been talking and been kept in yesterday), I can't say exactly what happened based on how she tells the story.

She said her bum went numb because she'd been sat on the carpet lots today.

For now, I've reiterated the importance of the whole class being respectful to the teacher.

[fishfingersandketchup]

It is counterproductive for some children. My DS would get so anxious about missing his play the next day as a whole class punishment. By the teacher's admission, he was rarely the one causing trouble. I understand the 'we're a team' mentality but it can be a real source of anxiety for some children. She did change her behaviour management when she realised how upset some children were getting.
I personally think individual sanctions at the time of the behaviour is the best approach.

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

I’m betting that actually this punishment will make the disruptive boys worse not better

[MaisyPops]

I personally think individual sanctions at the time of the behaviour is the best approach
I agree.

I had a form tutor in school who loved whole class detentions. We had no respect for her and thought she was an idiot. Years later I bumped into someone who used to teach me. We were reminiscing and the tutoe came up. It turns out she was viewed as having poor class management and pretty ineffective by colleagues too.

[sirfredfredgeorge]

Something that would be illegal at time of war (Article 33 of the fourth geneva convention) has no place in a school. Of course the nature of the punishment is quite different to as envisaged by the restriction on collective punishment.

But yes, it's very wrong, and where it does work in improving whole class behaviour is normally only because certain individuals are bullied into stopping by their peers.

I would be very surprised that the schools behaviour policy actually lists it - get a copy, it's normally on the website - and if it doesn't ask why the school isn't following it, and if it does, ask them to change it.

[ThreeAnkleBiters]

I would go in and find out from the teacher what actually happened but I wouldn't be happy at all. Children need time to run around and the disruptive boys are likely to be even more disruptive if they're cooped up for longer. It's incredibly unhealthy.

[StitchingMoss]

Sirfred, illegal in a time of war ??? We’re talking about children being kept in for FIVE minutes! Not their whole play time. Let’s get some perspective! Quite common at the beginning of the year when teachers are laying ground rules and setting standards. Not something I do but I know others do and it can help.

If any of you non-teachers have any other strategies for stopping your NT kids from constantly talking while the teacher is talking, please share.

[ThreeAnkleBiters]

@StitchingMoss

No re-read the OP. They missed (at least according to OP's DD) the whole playtime.

[sirfredfredgeorge]

Collective punishment - punishment for something you have not done, but one of your peers has - is rightly illegal in war. Obviously there's a big difference between war and a classroom, but there's no fundamental reason why collective punishment would be successful there - it was never successful in war time either. Collective punishment doesn't work, and no, forcing other kids to do your behaviour management by bullying the talkers is not the route - just punish the talkers.

Does your school behaviour policy really allow collective punishment? Ours doesn't, and I couldn't find one online, which doesn't surprise me as it doesn't work.

[ThreeAnkleBiters]

StitchingMoss

AT DC's school they use positive behaviour management techniques (e.g. rewards for good behaviour). Constant reminders, visual reminders at the time (e.g. hands in the air means no talking and listening, an sand timer for how long they need to be quiet for), they don't spend too long talking at this age. Certain children have their own behaviour management plans as they find it especially difficult. They never ever lose an entire playtime. That would be counter productive and unhealthy for very obvious reasons - it's also likely to mean children who find it more difficult to sit still will be bullied by their peers. Remember also that a large proportion of non-NT children won't have been diagnosed by Y2.

[Starlighter]

Sounds a bit harsh for that age group. I have two summer babies and they would really struggle with no playtime, most 6 year olds really need a run around and fresh air...

Is this teacher used to teaching older children? Such a shame to use such heavy-handed punishments so early on, it could really impact the morale of the children and their enthusiasm for school.

I’d let this one go but if it happened again I would have to ask to see the school’s behaviour policy.

[StitchingMoss]

I don’t use it, but to compare it to the Geneva convention is a ludicrous over-reaction. I know all about positive behaviour techniques and they’re fab and work in lots of circumstances but not always.

If this was a consistent punishment I’d be unimpressed but I expect it’s an “early days” shot across the bows about behaviour expectations.

I would watch and wait personally.

[ThreeAnkleBiters]

This is something I feel very strongly about so personally I wouldn't let it go - and with 3 kids in school I've never been in once about anything. There is a great deal of research about the negative long term impacts of losing play time - especially for boys who struggle with behaviour. Other negative consequences for bad behaviour I'd obviously be totally supportive. Also I would certainly be supportive of the teacher in front of child.

[Thecrabbypatty]

Erm. So what happens to all these children who struggle without time outside during wet break? Chuck them into the rain anyway?

[ThreeAnkleBiters]

Erm. So what happens to all these children who struggle without time outside during wet break? Chuck them into the rain anyway?

In my DC's school they go out in waterproofs and wellies unless it's really wet. It's rarely too wet to go out at all but in that situation they stay in and have free play - they don't sit in silence on the carpet!

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

Pretty sure ours throw them out whatever the weather too.

[Thecrabbypatty]

No. They don't go out whatever the weather because then you would have to pay the staff to go out in all weather's and that doesn't happen I'm afraid.

[pinkhorse]

Doesn't this happen in most schools? This has always happened in ds' schools. I don't see the issue.

[MaisyPops]

Doesn't this happen in most schools?
It depends how far.
E.g. I will wait for the class to be quiet and ready before I dismiss to break/lunch and if that means getting out 3 mins late then so be it (if a couple of students have been ready properly then I give them a nod and let them slip out) - that's common

Whole class punishments - not common and whilst rarely explicitly banned in behaviour policies, every school I've been in has made it clear to staff that they should be rarely used because it is rarely every child in the whole class
This has always happened in ds' schools. I don't see the issue.
I do.
What's the incentive to behave if you have disruptive students in your class? After all you're probably going to be published regardless of how well you behave?
It's lazy classroom management and hugely unfair on the children.

[MaisyPops]

*punnished