KS2 sats results will not be given

(27 Posts)
anothersatsone Tue 07-Aug-18 15:29:12

Have name changed as potentially outing.

Have been informed by the school that, following a complaint to and investigation by the STA, some of the y6 SATS results will not be given due to the children having been 'over-aided'. We will receive some.

My specific query about this is does anyone know if it will it affect the information passed on to secondary schools? To my understanding, teachers can only award 'at expected level' (or not) and not 'greater depth'.

While I'm not desperately bothered about not receiving the exact marks, I am keen to ensure that as accurate info as possible is passed onto secondary school, given that many schools use these results in setting targets, streaming etc.


OP’s posts: |
Feenie Tue 07-Aug-18 15:40:36

The information that secondary schools get will be exactly the same as the parents.

The primary school is in masses of trouble and there will probably be jobs lost.

anothersatsone Tue 07-Aug-18 15:46:58

Thanks Feenie. My child's report said 'expected level' but we were told that that is the highest level the teacher can award and GD would either be awarded or not with the SATS results. He has been performing at a GD level throughout primary (or above expected in the old levels).

After all their hard work, I will be annoyed if accurate info isn't sent to the secondary school, as I expect that they will be much more explicit with children about their targets/grades/streams.

I don't really buy the 'it won't affect their secondary transition line' as why send the information in the first place?

It's a dismal state of affairs and really sad after a great y6 for the children.

OP’s posts: |
Feenie Tue 07-Aug-18 15:49:28

Greater depth can only be awarded for the writing teacher assessment.

anothersatsone Tue 07-Aug-18 15:59:30

Yes, sorry I wasn't clear. He was awarded GD for writing and science, and expected for maths and english based on teacher assessment as that's the highest the teacher could give for these subjects. I would have expected that to be GD following the SATS tests as it has been throughout primary.

Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but my child is very capable but often lacks confidence. It seems very unjust that his secondary school won't be told what he and his classmates are actually capable of. If he hadn't achieved GD in the SATS, fair enough, but we don't and won't know.

Surely not giving accurate information to the secondaryschool is penalising the children?

OP’s posts: |
Feenie Tue 07-Aug-18 16:05:05

Any kind of cheating calls the accuracy of their entire assessment into question, I'm afraid - and I agree that it's very unfair on the children. I'd expect the secondary school to make their own assessments fairly quickly anyway.

Btw, the school should only have given met/has not met for Science also - there's no GD for anything except writing.

Bezm Tue 07-Aug-18 16:07:51

In no way will your child be penalised at secondary school. Teachers have to send off their teacher assessments for each child, and these may be the same as the SATs results, but they may not.
Many secondary schools do CAT tests at the start of Y7 and some set children according to those results. Many are now having pure mixed ability classes. They will not be setting targets so soon at the start of the year.
Your main concern should be that the school has, in effect, cheated in the tests. That will most likely trigger an OFSTED inspection and have dire consequences for staff at the school.


anothersatsone Tue 07-Aug-18 16:09:58

Possibly, although assessments have been made by multiple teachers over the years, and external moderators etc.

I guess the secondary schools will be informed that the SATS results won't be released?

OP’s posts: |
Feenie Tue 07-Aug-18 16:11:49

Yes, they will. They'll be the talk of the area among schools as well - it's so serious.

anothersatsone Tue 07-Aug-18 16:12:11

Thanks Bezn. That's useful to know about teacher assessment - that is my specific concern re my child and their education tbh.

The school actually had Ofsted in during the SATS, strangely enough.

OP’s posts: |
anothersatsone Tue 07-Aug-18 16:14:39

It's really serious. Another local primary school had its entire SATS results annulled a few years ago, after a marker noticed that several scripts had been altered in the same handwriting. The school appealed, which wasn't upheld.

I wish teachers would swap with other schools to administer SATS. Apparently, there are hundreds of complaints about maladministration each year which would be greatly reduced if the people invigilating didn't have a horse in the race.

OP’s posts: |
Feenie Tue 07-Aug-18 16:27:12

It's good practice to invite governors in to oversee the process.

Rockandrollwithit Tue 07-Aug-18 16:29:48

We had OFSTED during the SATs last year. They simply avoided Year 6 at the relevant times - it's not their remit to check that SATs are being organised and administered correctly.

This is seriously bad news for the school. They will be the talk of the area and the secondary schools will no doubt know what is going on.

anothersatsone Tue 07-Aug-18 17:14:40

There doesn't seem to be much of a link between the STA and Ofsted, based on what happened at the other local school.

Ofsted came in the term after their SATS were annulled, moved the school out of 'requires improvement' to 'good' and didn't mention the SATS situation in the report. The school denied any wrong doing throughout.

I don't know what the arrangements were re: invigilating this year. There have been extra checks across the LA following the above, but no idea if this happened at this school this year.

I've just spoken to the relevant person in the school and indeed teacher assessments do get sent to secondary, which is what I wanted to know, so thanks for all help.

OP’s posts: |
Oliversmumsarmy Tue 07-Aug-18 17:24:57

A lot of secondary schools have their own tests which are taken in the first few days of starting and the students are streamed based on that as a few I know say that children had been overly prepared for SATS so the results they found were not worth much. Also with big secondaries they have to distinguish between the 45 pupils who got graded the same.

Theworldisfullofgs Tue 07-Aug-18 18:17:07

I doubt it will affect anything at secondary. Most assess themselves and readers after Xmas when the children have settled in a bit.

elkiedee Wed 08-Aug-18 09:05:39

I've actually seen yesterday that this has happened to a local primary school which was academised against the wishes of most parents a few years ago. It's very bad for the school but I think it will have more impact on kids still there as it will throw staffing, morale, other parents and kids all up in the air.

SATS are used by the government as a way of assessing schools - teacher assessments from primary school and the secondary school's own assessment systems should be more relevant for your dc going into Y7. This is my understanding as DS1 has just finished primary too. They're not relied on as an assessment of individual pupils.

Feenie Wed 08-Aug-18 10:31:57

The test results are used to set GCSE targets that the secondary has to meet (although not in the OP's school because there aren't any.

Even the Science GCSE target is not set from the Science TA but comes from the results of the Reading and Maths tests sat in Y6. It's crazy.

spanieleyes Wed 08-Aug-18 11:43:09

Without test results, the secondary schools will use the teacher assessment submitted prior to the tests to set targets for Progress 8.

( see essexclerks.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/6.-Progress-8-school-performance-measure-18-Oct-1.pdf Annex C)

"Adjustments are made for pupils with incomplete test results:
• if a pupil does not have a test result in a subject then their teacher assessment level is used (see table below)
• if a pupil has a result missing in one subject, then prior attainment is calculated from the remaining subject
• if a pupil does not have a test score or teacher assessment result in any subject then they are excluded from the measure

Feenie Wed 08-Aug-18 11:45:55

It would be much fairer in this case to exclude them from the measure - as I said before, the whole assessment system in a school should be called into question if they have cheated - how can teacher assessment be relied upon in a case such as this?

elkiedee Wed 08-Aug-18 13:42:03

But the pressure is on schools over SATS not to lie about teacher assessments. Not at all justifying it but it's possible that teacher assessments are accurate even if there's been cheating in the SATS.

I would like to see KS2 SATs, schools being judged by them and pupils being put under pressure when it's not about them, it's about the schools really, all scrapped, it's a terrible system.

Feenie Wed 08-Aug-18 13:54:38

But the pressure is on schools over SATS not to lie about teacher assessments

That isn't true - the writing teacher assessment is an accountable measure, as in it appears in the league tables and is part of the all important combined measure.

anothersatsone Wed 08-Aug-18 15:24:12

I confirmed yesterday that the teacher assessments will be sent to the secondary schools.

These have been externally moderated within an inch of their lives, which is different to a test situation.

Two of the results will be given - it wasn't all of the papers. So it would be disproportionate and unfair to exclude the papers that have been cleared of wrong doing from the measure, wouldn't it?

OP’s posts: |
Norestformrz Wed 08-Aug-18 16:29:34

Unfortunately the tests that are in the clear are meaningless on their own.

Feenie Wed 08-Aug-18 17:17:28

These have been externally moderated within an inch of their lives

Only writing is subject to external moderation - the reading, maths and science aren't.

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