Sending a child home for wetting or soiling.

[onmykneesandsinking22]

Hi! My ds (5 years old) has an ongoing problem with toileting. Been seen by an OT, nurse, doctor but no real advice so there's not a diagnosed "condition" but he just goes through phases of wetting and soiling daily. He did this at the start of Reception but settled down after half a term, had a two week wobble mid year but has been fine. Until a teacher apparently shouted at the group that my ds was in telling them that asking to go to the toilet was "ridiculous" so he wet himself instead. This seems to have triggered a downward spiral and he's now wetting and soiling daily again. Today he got sent home from school for soiling then wetting. Dp collected him but I'm just wondering if they can keep sending him home for this? I'm panicking really as dp can accommodate this to a certain extent but I really really can't just take off from work, as a one off maybe but not regularly. So, where do I stand? Can they insist that he goes home every time he wets or soils? Thanks!

[Bobbybobbins]

I think given that he has had medical investigations, that evidence of this should be enough that they should deal with it at the school and not send him home.

[Kingsclerelass]

I think the general rule is that if your child is not toilet trained by the time they go to school, they should be wearing nappies or trainer pants because it is not the staff’s job to TT your child. Having said that, accidents happen a lot in reception and they are usually just asked to change into their PE kit. Make sure there are clean pants and socks in their book bag.
You’ve only got a couple of weeks until the summer holidays so try to hang on until then and spend lots of time in the summer making sure your dc is dry & confident what to do.
And I’d send a letter of complaint about any shouty reception teacher.

[onmykneesandsinking22]

@Kingsclerelass he is toilet trained though? He can go for six months at a time without a single accident and is completely dry at night. It's really not lack of toilet training .....we've tried every strategy going, he just seems to go through bad phases where he has regular accidents and nobody knows why, possibly a stress reaction but we're not sure.

[funmummy48]

It's a bit difficult really as if he's soiled a lot school won't have the facilities to change him. I've worked with two children with SEN who soiled themselves but I was 1:1 and had gloves, set wipes, nappy bags, disposal facilities plus a large disabled toilet to change them in. In a cramped toilet cubicle when you're on playground/lunchduty with other children coming in and out, changing a soiled child will be a much bigger task. If it's an ongoing issue, you need to get your continence nurse to contact the school and sort out a proper plan. I appreciate that it's difficult for you but I'm sure the staff are doing their best.

[TroubledLichen]

Could he wear a pull up and clean himself up if he has an accident? I did a placement in a school and wetting did occasionally happen, especially in reception and we’d give clean pants/uniform from the stash or PE kit depending on what we had. Never had soiling but I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the staff to help with clean up. I’d complain about that teacher though, if she genuinely did shout at your DS in front of his friends after he asked to go to toilet, and knowing he has a medical condition then that’s appalling.

[onmykneesandsinking22]

And we always provide clean clothes although I haven't checked with his dad so maybe he forgot and this was the issue.

[swimmerlab]

I had a friend who's child soiled himself and school called her (or her husband) to come into school every time it happened. They could clean him up and leave him in school, but school would not deal with it.

[charliesweb]

The school should not be sending your child home or asking you to come in if he's soiled or wet himself. This contravenes the SEND code of practise and is also discriminatory. It is not uncommon for YR (and sometimes older) children to have occasional accidents so they should have the wipes etc to deal with this in school. I ask my parents to keep a change of clothes in school as we don't always have spares, but we have everything else.
I would ask to speak to your schools Inclusion Coordinator (SENCO) if you are concerned.

[Kingsclerelass]

Can you ask to meet with next year’s class teacher now, explain the issue and agree a strategy.
If you don’t, all she will hear are the views of the reception teacher which might not be very fair. Ask the new teacher’s advice. If she’s been teaching KS1 for 20 years, her input may be useful. It might help to get her on side now.

[Clairetree1]

ask your child why it keeps happening

[thehairyhog]

Could he have a faecal impaction? This is very common and causes wetting and soiling in toilet trained children.

[ILoveDolly]

Please meet with the teacher to agree a strategy as others have suggested. Perhaps while he is still struggling sending him with some extra changes of things in his PE bag too. Excuse if that is an obvious suggestion, not trying to be patronising. At my school they are just encouraged to change and a TA or SN Assistant (whoever appropriate is around) will help them if they need it. Even normally well TT children can wet at this age and there's usually someone in the year group who isn't reliable for health reasons so it seems totally harsh that the teachers are shouting and sending home. It is WELL RECOGNISED that making them anxious about the toilet in no way helps. I'm annoyed on your behalf OP.

[pileoflaundry]

Could your DS use the stash of elastic trousers/shorts, socks, underwear and wipes in his school bag, to deal with accidents at school without needing help? If not, could he practice at home until he gets the hang of it? Could he also be 'responsible' for making sure that he has enough spare clothes and that wet ones come home/go into the washing machine? (The draw of washing machine buttons is irresistible...)

I know that this doesn't tackle the root cause, but it could make things easier and make your DS feel more independent/in charge of his own bodily functions even though some stuff isn't quite working to plan.

[Shutityoutart]

My ds is year 1, he still has accidents during the day and is in pull ups at night. When he was in reception he regularly came home with his clothes in a bag.
The staff were good and never sent him home and were really lovely to him. He’s been investigated too but no diagnosis yet.

[HardAsSnails]

Contact your school nurse and discuss a care plan. Maybe ask MN to move this thread to SN.

[onmykneesandsinking22]

Does this count as a SN? He has nothing diagnosed and has no other SN apart from physical. Thank you all for your suggestions, very helpful. I have a list:

1. Visit doctor to discuss faecal impaction (gp useless last time but I feel we need to check obvious causes with every bad patch)
2. Work on self care skills over the summer so he's not a massive bother to the staff.
3. Meet with school nurse, new CT and possibly SENCo to create a care plan.

I feel a little bit more positive having something to do

[reluctantbrit]

Could he be constipated due to stress or anxiety? Sounds strange but soiling and wetting is often a sign. Maybe have a look at the ERIC website for help and tips.

DD developed chronic constipation in Reception due to stress with building work at home. The school and clubs were great, we made sure DD had clean clothes and wipes plus small bags with her. We also ensured together with the teacher that DD was sent to the toilet regularly to minimise accidents,

In the end a gastric paediatrician helped, maybe asked for a referral to at least check for physical problems. We went private as
NHS waiting list was far too long.

[onmykneesandsinking22]

@reluctantbrit thanks for that, it could be stress related as he's a real people pleaser and will worry himself sick if he thinks somebody is cross or upset with him. I think this is where the negative cycles come from with his toileting,because he gets upset and worried about being in trouble for his accidents but that makes him worse. That's only my own half baked theory though. His dad thinks he's just being lazy or naughty.

Got a doctor's appointment now anyway to rule out any obvious causes for this bout.

[PenApple]

When he’s soiling is it just small bits or a full bowel movement? It’s it’s not a proper BM then it’s probably constipation?

Ds1 has huge issues with this and is much older, never solids in underwear it’s always almost like a small amount of diarrhoea, so all hcp’s are saying overflow. We are still trying to get to the bottom of it though, hopefully with new consultant we are getting there.

He has never told school when it’s happened though, as he claims not to have noticed - which is worrying in itself.

[JimmyGrimble]

Schools can no longer refuse to change a child as it is discriminatory under the DDA. A care plan needs to be in place. It is very wearing on staff though as it can upset ratios in EYFS. If you’re having medical investigations, providing extra clothing and changing things then they need to be supporting, not excluding, your child.

[PenApple]

reluctant can I ask what they did to help your DD in the end? We’ve been on laxatives and softeners and good routine on and off for years, they’re asking to do exclusion diets next.

[RogerAllamsFangirl]

I know it's massively hard but we've been through this and we found that the more we focussed on trying to find the cause/issue, the worse it was. Cleaning up (which the school did) and downplaying worked best.

[Mayhemmumma]

OP I sympathise my son is starting school in September and regularly 'leaks' poo.

He has impacted faeces and chronic constipation, movicol and lactulose prescribed which some weeks mean he is perfectly clean and just as I think the problem is resolved it happens again.

I'm desperately worried about him getting sore at school, it's not a full poo so not always obvious and now other children notice and my heart hurts for him.

It frustrating when I'm told he's not potty trained, he is! He can use toilet fine and is dry at night but he doesn't have the right sensation or urge to go and notices after he leaks.

Argh.sob. good luck

[Rebecca36]

The worst thing anyone can do is stress him out. Help him to relax and grow in confidence during the holidays & don't mention the 'problem'. By September he may well be better.

[IlikemyTeahot]

Is he constipated?