Advice on problem with DD´s Maths education

[margaritasbythesea]

DCs and I are currently living abroad but are due to go back for the 2018-19 academic year. By the time she goes back she will have spent Y4 and Y5 away and go back into Y6

DD has always struggled in Maths. She was undiagnosed with hearing loss for Reception and Y1 which will obviously have been an obstacle for her. She had (and still has to some extent) a real lack of self confidence, perhaps in general, but definitely when it comes to Maths.

We asked many times at her UK school to be able to follow the work she was doing in class to support her at home. We were always told we would be provided with materials, but never were, apart from a couple of books of sums. What we really wanted was a heads up when they were starting for example, times tables or telling the time etc and despite asking (it is a school where we see the teachers daily informally and chatting is enouraged so I wasn´t being a pain here) but it never got going at all. There wasnñt ever any MAths homework, so no clues there.

At the end of Y3 she could barely add up or subtract even simple numbers and didn´t know any times tables even though I had tried to ehlp her with those things.

Here, the educational system is very different. All the work is from text books which are sent home with homework every day, so you always know exactly what your child is doing. We have found this an immense relief. It´s wonderful to be able to help her. We have also employed a tutor as the method of doing things is different here and it is much less nerve wracking for her to have a native speaker doing it with her.

She has learnt an immense amount, and is now doing for example, three figure divisions with confidence, or dividing fractions.

I have been worrying about what will happen when we go back to the UK school, and thinking I would just be more assertive with the school and employ a tutor to teach her the UK methods and that would be enough.

However, I have recently been talking to some UK friends whose children go to the same school and I am now really worried as they are all having the same problems as I had.That is, wanting to help and reinforce what there children are doing, and with the feeling that the children really haven´t advanced very much. One of them is a Professor of Maths and is despairing. None of them have had any help from the school. They have brought this up without me asking, which is even more worrying.

I was going to approach the school and just ask for schemes of work for the year, take them home and work with them but these other parents suspect that they are actually in just a real muddle.

I desperately want my daughter to maintain the little confidence in Maths that she has gained over the last 18 months. I would really like to work with the school to pull this off.

I would really appreciate any tips or advice about how to approach this. I am happy to throw money and time at the problem to get her confident in Maths, whatever it takes but I feel if I am walking out of step with the school it will more create problems with dd (´But that´s not what we´re even doing at school Mummy!´I can hear her already). I also need to know the methods that they use because I am sure they may well have changed since I was at Primary in the late 70s early 80s.

I would really appreciate your advice. I am sorry for the length of my post, but I really feel passionately that Maths is the key to so many interesting careers but most of all I want ther to feel able. It may never be her favourite subject but she has overcome so many nerves and so much difficulty with it and I don´t want her to go back there.

[margaritasbythesea]

Sorry for typing the last paragraph twice!

[MummySparkle]

Could you purchase the next level of the textbook she is currently working from to take back with you to the U.K. that way when she comes home and says 'we did ... in maths today but I didn't really get it' you can have a look at the text book together.

[margaritasbythesea]

I am thinking of doing that with some of her other subjects but the way they do divisions for example is so different here (sort of backwards to a UK person) that it wouldn´t help I am afraid.

Thanks for your response though, and for reading the massive post.

[Caulk]

arrange a meeting with her teacher when you return to explain, and ask to see the medium term planning for maths, so you can see what will be happening to support her.

I would also be working on her resilience so you can cope with the challenge of knowing something is taught differently, or asking for help and it not rocking her.

[MiniDoofa]

OP, I'm totally with you on the the passion for maths and the fact that it is key to accessing many other subject areas and therefore careers.
You mention you have an English speaking tutor- could they look up the national curriculum to see what the key points are for the year she will go back to? Then they could ensure they've covered what she will need to be able to slot in to the U.K. System.
You might want to think about having a tutor lined up from day one in the U.K. I'm just thinking there will be a transition period for your DD and having some support from the outset might be better than watching and waiting till there is a problem if you see what I mean.
Mention it to the U.K. teacher and listen to what they say. But most of all go with your gut feeling. Speaking as someone whose daughter has had a similar struggle with maths and is now doing well because we kept questioning the school's assessment (have to be careful with HOW you ho about that, don't want to piss them off!!) and we used a tutor when we needed to.
Best of luck OP

[CotswoldStrife]

That's going to be tough to return to YR6 with the SATs - have you had a look at any of the SATs practice books, or the CGP study guide as an idea of what is expected for that stage?

My DD is in YR6 currently and they sometimes bring homework on worksheets but a lot of it is done on MyMaths which is an online programme. If they consistently use a textbook I've never seen it - I really don't think they do, so you don't get any clues in that way!

[user789653241]

You can have a look at this site.
uk.ixl.com/
They list all the skills they need to be able to do in each year group and follows NC. It's quite easy to see.
You can subscribe to use full content(reception-yr13) for quite cheap if you like(around £5 for a subject a month, £69 for English or maths a year, or £99 for boths), but you can also use it for free up to 10 question for a day or just click to see what kind of questions they are.

[brilliotic]

Hi OP,

there have been some long (and very interesting) discussions in the past about differences in how schools work in different countries, especially as regards 'textbooks', workbooks being sent home, and parents effectively supporting their child with what is being taught right now at school.
Those threads (some links below) seem to come to the conclusion that there are advantages and disadvantages to either system, but fundamentally it is a culture clash that is not very bridgeable.

You have found that the 'other' system worked a lot better for your child than the UK system did (in maths). So you want to try to replicate 'what worked' but in a completely different context. My impression from those threads is that you will most likely struggle with this. Teachers will give you lots of reasons for why what you want to do doesn't work/is impracticable. They might suggest alternatives that sound good (such as 'you can come in and look at the books whenever you want') but turn out to be only lip-service.
In fact, if you, assuming that the teachers are keen to support your child and thus will want to know what worked for your child abroad, keep on telling the teachers 'this is what we did for DD in x country, it worked really well, perhaps something like that could be implemented here?' - you risk being seen as a 'difficult' parent who keeps banging on about how great the school system is elsewhere rather than focusing on what can be done here and now.

I too come from abroad and struggled initially to get my head around how hard it is to effectively support your child here, given you know so little about what they are actually doing and what they can do easily/what they may be struggling with, until parents' evening half a year later.

My advice to you would be...

1. Don't try to replicate what you had abroad. Instead, see the good sides of the system here and work with that, not against it.
   
2. Be optimistic. It sounds like your DD caught up a lot. Don't assume that without your daily textbook based support at home, she will immediately fall back again. She might just have needed this to get the basics really down pat, and now she can fly - even without that support.
   
3. Yes do look at the curriculum requirements and make sure that there are no glaring gaps. That would risk shattering her confidence, if she came back feeling all 'I get maths now' just to be confronted with a topic she has never seen before but all her classmates seem to do it easily.
   
4. Keep a closer eye on how she is doing at school than you might otherwise. Don't wait for parents' evening, don't wait for the teacher to bring something up. You could aim, for instance, to see her maths books once every half term, I think that should be a realistic ask. Note if there are any topics she is struggling with, and then practise those at home using all the links/suggestions given by PPs above.
   
5. Meanwhile, whereas you probably won't be able to support what she learns everyday at school (as in, today we did multiplication of decimals, I got this bit but struggled with that part, so let's practise that tonight), that doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't do some daily practice with her anyway. It won't be as focused as what you got to experience abroad. It won't be the kind of support that meant that if she didn't quite get something one day, she would still be able to keep up with the class on the next day, as you had helped her 'get it' at home. This I think you won't be able to achieve. But a short time of regular maths practice at home is still very much worth it. E.g. 15 minutes every day; working through some kind of scheme that is aligned to the curriculum, or matches where she is, ability wise. Offline workbooks or online things such as iXL, MathsFactor, etc.
   
6. Then if it turns out all this is not enough, react quickly and get a tutor. Don't let her fall far behind. She clearly is capable of doing maths but has a frail confidence.
   
7. Help her realise that with work, she clearly is able to do maths. Any setbacks are nothing to do with any 'innate' non-ability for maths, but rather your experience abroad shows that working hard at a maths topic means she CAN learn it. Any setbacks are thus 'merely' because she didn't practise enough, not because she is 'not maths-y enough'.
   
   Hope this helps a little. And a warning - the threads below are long with many articulate posts, they'll easily steal half a day of your time if you're not careful ;)
   
   www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2608929-Clash-with-teacher-and-principal-over-textbooks-AIBU-Help-meeting-tomorrow
   
   www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2918503-giving-home-school-books-text-books-etc

[Arkadia]

Oh, gosh... Not again.

Personally I have totally given up.on knowing what happens at school. When I get to know something it is a bonus.
However we work at home and that works out fine. So, I would go for point (5), which may be your only, and most sensible, option.

[Ellle]

I think you can keep on track of what she is learning by asking her what she is doing at school in maths that day, or that week. I do this with DS1 (Year 4), so I always have a good idea of the kind of things they are doing each week (addition, subtraction, problem solving, multiplication, division, roman numerals, etc). If they are doing division, he can tell me the name of the method they are using, etc. Based on that, you can then reinforce at home as you see fit with exercises, work books, etc.

You can also check out the Galore Park text books that come by Year group, and also have a look at the National Curriculum to get an idea of what she is supposed to know by the end of Year 6. That year they are usually preparing for SATs. They'll do practise tests at school, and they should be able to identify if she has a weak area. You could then help at home with the tutor or help her by yourself so that she gets more confident in those areas.

[brilliotic]

Same here Arkadia (I was on one of those threads, under a different name though)

DS has agreed to do about 15 minutes of maths at home every day. We're coming from a different point than OP though, for us it is a matter of DS enjoying maths and wanting to do more /more interesting things than he gets to do at school, and move forward faster. What he does at home is completely disconnected to what they do at school. It would be more efficient at times to be practising/extending what they are currently doing at school, but that is never going to be happening regularly/consistently, so we're just doing our own maths 'course'. It is amazing how much progress can be made by the 'little&often' approach though, even if it is not connected to actual school work.

[OutwiththeOutCrowd]

Have a look at this book - Maths for Mums and Dads by Rob Eastaway and Mike Askew. The book provides guidance to parents who wish to help their children with maths, introducing current methods that parents may not be familiar with from their own schooldays. (There's a second book for older children.)

Also have a look at Maths Whizz.

This platform provides a personalised program of maths computer games for children. An initial assessment determines the level children are at in various subtopics and which areas require more work. There’s a feature that allows parents to monitor progress.

My DS’s primary school used Maths Whizz and DS quite liked it.

[educatingarti]

I am a maths tutor. I would go to CGP books and get the study book and workbook for year 6. The study book will give all the year 6 syllabus and the methods they need to learn. It is often a bit information intensive for the child to use on their own but it's great for letting a parent ( or tutor) know what they have to cover. The work book gives a range of questions on the topics so you can see the range of ways they may need to apply the knowledge. It won't give enough practice for a student having difficulties but you can then make up similar questions or source other similar work online.

[margaritasbythesea]

Thank you all very much for your responses, and I am sorry not to respond myself sooner.

This is all really helpful, and I will certainly read the curriculum and get the CGP books and the Maths for Mum and Dad book.

It´s very interesting to know your experience of switching between systems brilliotic and I will use your advice. I find it reassuring, even though you are tellingme I won´t be able to do exactly what I want. I will read those threads.

Thank you all again.

[Penny4]

If it would be of any benefit at this late stage, there is a detailed workbook available from Amazon that you may want to have a look at as it deals solely with Roman Numerals.

It is called IVXLCDM Cracking Roman Numerals and, by way of maintaining interest, associates Roman Numerals with historical events etc. There's lots and lots of practice.

[wakemeupbefore]

UK school system - even independents, despite claims otherwise - follow the brain farts of DepEducation bureucrats who are trying to move up pecking order and are so expected to bring in 'Change' in the education system. Such 'Changes' are rarely thought through or scientifically supported but a Minister of Ed and hordes of minions must get their mark on the board and the pointless changing of the way children are taught goes on.... and on...
The lack of textbooks is a big problem as OP describes, knowing what your child is learning every day helps parents to reinforce it at home via textbooks.
But a career Civil Servant who knew sum total of zilch about educational practices needed a move on to the post on next level therefore textbooks were considered passe.....

[Kokeshi123]

It's a bit of a vicious cycle IMO.

"Differentiation" is always given as the reason why UK schools can't use textbooks. But in countries where textbooks and workbooks do get used and do get sent home, it is much easier to get parents and kids on board with doing extra practice at home, meaning that weaker kids can more easily be pushed up to a certain level and reducing the need for differentiation in the first place. Where I live, parents are also given answer books and expected to do some of the marking for the more basic cut-and-dried tasks--this really gives you a clear sense of where they are, and you very quickly grasp when they have weak points and can take action quickly, before it starts building up into a major problem.

In the UK systems, once kids start off a bit weaker, they just seem to straggle further and further behind with each month/year. And the fact that parents aren't seeing the kids' work, can't easily spot when a kid has failed to understand something and have no tools for practicing skills at home with their kids surely doesn't help this.

I like many aspects of the UK systems and there are many faults in the educational system of the country where I live. But the lack of textbooks (let alone textbooks that actually go home each day) in English/Welsh/Scottish schools is one thing that I think the UK really gets wrong.

[Naty1]

Agree. I went to private school and certainly secondary we did get books home.
Now dd1 is in yr 1 and we dont get anything home so the only looks we get are at parents evening. So i could see she didn't understand partitioning but have no idea if she did get there in the end. Text books are great explanations examples (correct ones to look back on).

Tbh it's interesting they can send home reading books so we can do (basically all) the reading with dc.

[Charmatt]

As a basic guide for parents, the topics covered for each year group in a school should be published on their website - It's a statutory requirement. Ask your new school in the UK to signpost you to it.

We get the curriculum planning sent home each term.

[wakemeupbefore]

Charmatt, the 'basic guide' is about as useful as a loo roll, well, latter being decidedly more so. .
The best time to reinforce what has been covered in class is the same day, a quick overview if child has understood everything and is confident about the topic and diving deeper if there are gaps/problems.

[Charmatt]

Obviously schools differ but our local school provides enough detail in the information on the Maths topic for parents to follow it as it progresses. Each topic is taught for a term with breadth and depth; the children learn skills relating to the topic and then apply them in different ways. The detail in the planning means I can discuss on a daily basis what my daughter has been learning. Next term, not only will they learn new skills but the topic will utilise the skills learnt previously. They are part of a hub of schools teaching in this way.

[User111888]

I second having local textbooks that cover the next year or two if you find them easy to understand. This way you can always review the topics you child might struggle with when you are back.
We have effectively done this with my dd - we had textbooks and workbooks from another country and did the selected topics/excersises as I became very frustrated with the way math was being tought. It was really hard to assess what the child found easy or struggled with as feedback was very patchy and no workbooks were returned home on a regular basis.
Our situation was different in the way that dd loved maths and loved the structured approach of foreign textbooks (eg at some point at school they were told that 1/2 is half and 1/3 is a third, but failed to explain what exactly the upper and bottom number mean, just expected to memorise the notation which did seem a bit pointless, as if you present the child with 2/3 they would not be able to explain what it means). We used the textbooks regularly for about four years in primary and dd has always found them enjoyable.
The unstructured approach of math teaching does make it very difficult for parents to understand what is going on and if the child falls behind, it is much easier to help as soon as this happens but parents most often can't spot it on time.
As for how you can help your dd it might be worth having an assessment with the tutor to identify any gaps in knowledge due to the differences in curriculum and work on those gaps before you return. Hopefully your dd gained enough confidence in the last few years to cope well.

[Kokeshi123]

I took a gander through the various primary schools in my home town, looking at the curricula/schemes of work posted on their websites.

Most of it was super super vague. It was not a clear, point-by-point guide to what exactly is being covered and what algorithms are being used in maths and so on. Completely useless if you are a parent who wants a bit of practical hands-on information about "what is my child actually, like, doing in class today?"

[MonsterKidz]

Hi OP,

I am a Y6 Maths teacher in the UK.

I would purchase the Target Maths books for both Y5 and Y6. They are essentially the curriculum. Most schools use them, it’s not as straight forward as starting at the beginning and working through (I wish it were!) but it does cover every objective of the curriculum.

The other thing to look at is the CGP books as another poster has mentioned.

Teaxhers should be able to give parents a general overview of a half term, they should have medium term plans and then weekly plans they can share. There will always be some flexibility in how this is delivered, ie they may fly through stuff one week and need a second week on something the next week, but they should be able to share a broad overview in some form.

Good luck.

[wakemeupbefore]

Best advice - if you want a good, solid education for your DD, stay where you are.