SATS KS1 Maths in particular

(108 Posts)
Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 01:53:53

TEST

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:04:12

Hi feel a bit daft joining Mumsnet as a 61 year old granddad but if anyone will know.....

Trying to help out my granddaughter with a few bits of her maths but all I and her parents see are 'worksheets'. There is never anything to explain how they are being taught so by definition we cannot practise it with them. Have spoke to quite a few people in work and they all say they have had similar experiences. I can go online and find zillions of practice 'worksheets' but cannot find a single thing as to how they are taught to do things!
As an example I was taught to do subtractions in a simple mechanical way which worked every time but I still come across well educated adult who cannot do simple subtractions if there are zeros in the top line......new maths!
Anyway has anybody any insight as to resources showing how children are taught basic maths?

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:10:59

Just found this from another related posting......

I will go and ask the teacher how a particular thing (usually maths) is being taught as my daughter struggles with it and I don't want to confuse her by explaining it totally differently. Her teacher loves me.

which I love but realistically I would be there until 10 o'clock at night every day......not necessarily understanding it but why they seem to make it so complicated

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Faroutbrussel Wed 14-Feb-18 02:14:48

There are lots of maths videos on you tube and also check out Khan academy online.

Itvdrama Wed 14-Feb-18 02:19:10

Hi Jim, I would ask the school for their calculations policy, it may well be on their website - as you say, lots of new methods and not all schools will be teaching the same as their first preference. Completely agree, it’s very confusing!

Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:19:28

and finally for tonight came across this one as a typical example...

a picture of 8 circles 2 of which are shaded in....question is what proportion of buttons are NOT shaded in?

How does this question give any parent/guardian/nan/etc. any idea of how fractions are being taught? If the child gets it right then great and no problem BUT if the child gets it wrong then they clearly do not understand fractions so how can they possibly explain how they have been 'TAUGHT' to do it but obviously still do not understand?

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:25:37

Hi Faroutbrussel didn't expect replies so quick.

The point is I don't need to watch videos as I'm more than capable of teaching her anything she needs to know, her uncle, my son, also makes me look like a 2 year old when it comes to maths. The difficulty is it seems impossible to find out what methods they are actually being taught. Maths is definitely not her strong point but everything can be taught but if teacher is telling her one thing and me another then it's just confusion....

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:27:06

Hi itvdrama

Possibly just the sort of thing we need to know - What's a calculation policy?

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:28:13

....never had any interest whatsoever in 'social media' before but could get used to this

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:38:18

and itvdrama again

First preference? Does that mean if they pick second or third preference then 2+2 doesn't equal 4 any more? You need to share this wisdom....

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 02:41:16

I've created a monster....cannot find how to log out..am I here for eternity?

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Faroutbrussel Wed 14-Feb-18 02:46:48

I do understand where you are coming from, I watched a video on long division the other day and the method has changed quite a lot since I was taught. It would be confusing to be taught two different ways. I guess asking the teacher would be the next step. I am not sure if all schools teach the curriculum with the same methods.

There is a maths teacher here in Australia that has just won and award for his you tube videos that he produced so that one of his students who was in hostpital for a long time could keep up. He recorded his lessons and posted them on you tube and they really took off.

There are lots of teachers on this site so you may get more help from them tomorrow.

SandLand Wed 14-Feb-18 03:45:39

From what I can tell (British school, not in the UK), they teach several methods, and let the kids choose what they prefer.
It seems to confuse them as line mix methods, but also means hopefully less kids are left behind as hopefully one method makes sense to them.

I agree with asking for the calculation policy - It should detail the methods the school intend to us for the basic operations.

user789653241 Wed 14-Feb-18 06:47:40

By yr6, they should have been taught all the different methods and should be able to do the four operations as they like, including column methods older generation use.

School normally has "calculation policy" which tells the parents which methods they teach. It can be on website, or could be a booklet.

user789653241 Wed 14-Feb-18 08:00:45

"First preference? Does that mean if they pick second or third preference then 2+2 doesn't equal 4 any more? "

It doesn't really matter if you do 2 + 2, but when you do something like
232 + 567, you can do number of different ways.

1) Column method. (You can do it traditional way, or expanded way)
2) Number lines.
3) expanding method
And maybe more.

PickleFish Wed 14-Feb-18 09:13:00

Something like this book might help you understand the terminology of some of the different methods that are being taught, and you could then show her some of them and see if she recognises it, or ask her if she can do it on a number line, for example.

Often they start with very practical methods at first, and move to written methods that seem long-winded and time-consuming, but are actually very good methods to understand what is going on (using number lines, drawing empty number lines and adding needed numbers, breaking numbers apart into tens and units and calculating each bit separately, doing a grid method for multiplication, or chunking methods for division). Then once the children have a good grasp of what the calculation is all about, and how the base-ten number system works, then they gradually move to the more old-fashioned written methods that are faster and more efficient, but not as explanatory. Sometimes this happens in stages.

With the recent changes to SATs, some schools are moving to the formal written methods much more quickly now.

It could be worth asking the school what methods they're teaching for various topics at various times, and the book might help you understand the terminology of those explanations.

sherbsy Wed 14-Feb-18 10:23:24

I've been in the same boat with DD, she needed help but and the schools handed out worksheets every weekend but nobody told me how they were teaching it.

Anyway, I found a company called Exam Ninja that sold books like this:

www.examninja.co.uk/Key-Stage-1/Year-2-Maths-Practice-Pack-Age-6-7

The green book is exactly what you want!!!

Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:07:42

Thanks for all the responses, will follow up. I suppose what I cannot get my head around is that while I appreciate some methods may seem more 'logical' to some kids than others how are teachers, as the little ones progress, going to be able to teach each child to progress with the individual method they have decided suits them. If at the end of the day all it is for is to ensure some children are not excluded because they did not like a particular way it was taught then I'm all for that but on a practical realistic basis who are we testing here - the children or the people who are actually teaching them?

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:11:18

... in other words how do you teach a class of 25 children how to do subtractions if 5 of them do it one way, another 5 do it another way, another 5.........I assume you get the drift

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user789653241 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:32:36

Normally they are taught one method at the time, then move on to the next.
Your grand daughter is in yr6, so she should have been taught all the methods needed for SATs.
Honestly, it is very effective for her to watch one of the tutorial videos on youtube than you trying to teach her, unless you are up to date with current methods. If you type in what you want, you get it, done by many different people.

There's site called Khanacademy which has superb tutorial videos and practice questions, and also Mathantics is a very good video tutorial site.

Norestformrz Wed 14-Feb-18 19:33:09

Have you looked on the school website they may have a calculation policy which shows how they teach operations.
http://cliffe.n-yorks.sch.uk/data/documents/policy-mastery-calculation.pdf

Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:35:45

Hi PickleFish

Appreciate your input but again it boils down to how my grand daughter is being taught things! If I don't know then how can I help her.... I don't need a book to tell me how to explain things, I just want to know how it's being explained in schools these days so I don't confuse her. Was in work last night and someone asked how to do long division - showed them how I was taught and I could have been speaking and writing in Klingon....... got the right answer though when they used their mobile calculator to check :-)

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Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:40:35

Sorry but 'one method at a time then move on to the next'.....how many ways are there? And as before how do you trust trust your children's teacher to be able to deliver multiple different ways of doing something every time they do maths? Do they allow them to read or spell things whatever way they feel most comfortable with?

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user789653241 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:42:44

No, you are totally mistaken. The calculation policies are the books showing which methods particular school is using, with explanation for parents who aren't familiar with that method. You need that information to find out how your grand daughter has been taught at her school.

Jim999 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:43:15

Have you looked on the school website they may have a calculation policy which shows how they teach operations

'May have?' .......would it not be compulsory or can the teacher just make it up as they go along?

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