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Does this justify a detention?

(36 Posts)
dibbleanddobble Tue 07-Nov-17 06:55:01

Hello, I'm a teacher, my school
Has just brought in some new rules to improve performance ahead of an expected ofsted early next year. Just wondering what you think of them? I'm feeling massively uncomfortable and looking for perspective.

Times tables will be set as homework on a Thursday, every Monday there will be a times table test. Scores will be logged and failure to improve over 3 or more weeks will result in weekly lunchtime detentions until improvement is shown.

Cursive handwriting will be discretely taught twice a week. One a particular letter has been taught, failure to form it the way it has been taught, in any lesson will result in children missing break times in order to re write the whole piece of writing.

There will be no more exclusively practical lessons, each lesson must contain a written element and writing should be "extended" wherever possible.

This applies to the youngest pupils- 5 year olds upwards.

We have many Children with difficulties too including moderate learning difficulties, Eal, ASC and Spld.

Sirzy Tue 07-Nov-17 06:56:48

Sounds rediculous to me

We have many Children with difficulties too including moderate learning difficulties, Eal, ASC and Spld.

And surely they would be excempt?

MaisyPops Tue 07-Nov-17 06:57:43

It seems harsh to me but some bits of it I see the logic.
E.g. not making any progress on times tables in nearly a month means spending part of lunch going through them with a teacher seems reasonable, but calling it a detention and them sitting not working on times tables would be unreasonable

Ktown Tue 07-Nov-17 06:57:58

I think it is fine, with the exception of a child with a learning difficulty, or a child known to be suffering from neglect at home and with little support.
You cannot detain a child because the parents aren’t interested!

friendlessme Tue 07-Nov-17 07:00:39

Sounds like you will end up with a lot of disaffected, uninspired children... sounds desperate to me. Totally disagree that children should miss breaks/have detention if they don’t fit the mould. Some children will simply be unable to achieve these requirements as you know. It will be the same ones being punished over and over. Won’t raise standards either I wouldn’t have thought.

Acopyofacopy Tue 07-Nov-17 07:01:38

Sounds like the “detentions” are actually little help sessions to bring everybody up to speed, which seems fair enough.
Are you supposed to supervise/lead them? When are you going to eat/wee?

Caulk Tue 07-Nov-17 07:02:06

Times tables - fine, hand writing -

I’ve known children to ruin a piece of work on purpose and they have always had to re-write it during break but that’s it.

Catalufa Tue 07-Nov-17 07:05:21

I agree with Maisy - I’d be more comfortable with this if it was called ‘extra help’ rather than ‘detention’.

CappuccinoCake Tue 07-Nov-17 07:06:42

Sounds awful.

If a child is struggling there should be help given in class - not for a child to miss break sad

Norestformrz Tue 07-Nov-17 07:10:00

.I agree that calling it a detention is wrong why not make it positive by providing support rather than punishment.

BTW EAL isn’t a learning difficulty.

youarenotkiddingme Tue 07-Nov-17 07:11:30

Punishment for not making progress is ridiculous.

Extra sessions to support children who aren't making progress learning the 'conventional way' is good. But these sessions should introduce an alternative way of learning the information.

I also don't agree they should be instead of free time as it's punishment to miss it.

However this seems to be common practice. A local secondary school does all their Sen support after school. So you can only go home if you don't have difficulties hmmconfused

Cantchooseaname Tue 07-Nov-17 07:13:03

Also.... when do teachers eat lunch/ mark work/ got to the loo if they are supervising detentions??

InfiniteCurve Tue 07-Nov-17 07:23:50

My DC both struggled with writing,and would have spent the entire break every day rewriting if that had been the policy at their school.(DD dyspraxia,DS dyslexia)
And DS already had issues with wanting to get the letters to look perfect,which was good but the time he took to try and try again and then fail to achieve that was time he could actually have been learning.
Neat handwriting is not actually the most important goal of education.
Times tables - not sure - though the assumption is that anyone who doesn't learn is just not trying ,there will be children who can't.
Extra support is fine,but that should come out of teaching time,not as a punishment involving missing break time which children need.Often the children who are struggling with eg writing need it more.

Makes me sad

shouldwestayorshouldwego Tue 07-Nov-17 07:25:14

Hoping this is a reverse thread. Do you know how hard it can be for some children to write neatly? Have you ever had constant pain in your joints? Have you any idea how long it can take to get a diagnosis. Call it Maths masters, writing workers, sell it as a club if it really can't be done during the school day. Explore whether you could take a small group out during assembly. Remember that just because a child doesn't have a diagnosis it doesn't mean that there isn't an explanation for their lack of progress.

dibbleanddobble Tue 07-Nov-17 07:27:17

Copy, no as far as I know I'm not expected to supervise, that's not really what I was worried about.

dibbleanddobble Tue 07-Nov-17 07:30:54


I didn't say Eal was a learning difficulty I was just listing different barriers to learning that a lot of our children have. Once they settle our Eal children are often the most able but we have many many newly arrived families who are trying to settle in, learn the language, recover from trauma and find their feet.... Learning times tables sometimes isn't their top priority. Sorry for the confusion.

dibbleanddobble Tue 07-Nov-17 07:31:11

Kidding me, that's awful!!

junebirthdaygirl Tue 07-Nov-17 07:32:36

Teacher here. Hate to jear of detention for tables. My dh is probably dyslexic. He still has horrrific memories of school punishments for not being able to memorise tables. If you said 7 8s to him still he would jump. He has a very high professional qualification so not a disadvantage to progress in life.
Also the most learned people have awful handwriting. Sounds like ye are going back to the 60s.
Why not some rewards for progress or fun learning times tables.
A big NO from me.

Miniwerewolfhugs Tue 07-Nov-17 07:34:57

If that were my child's primary school I would have been very upset with this. My dd was an anxious child and this sort of thing would have upset her a lot. Even though she is quite good at her work and probably would have managed it she would have been stressed out about the threat of detention. I just think it's a wrong approach and more help for those who are struggling plus lots of encouragement would be so much more positive.

MrsKCastle Tue 07-Nov-17 07:35:05

The handwriting thing is awful. It's ridiculous to think that once a join has been taught the child can definitely do it in every piece of writing, if only they try hard enough. If a child has got into bad habits because it's not been picked up previously,it can take a long time to relearn. There's no instant fix.

dibbleanddobble Tue 07-Nov-17 07:36:42

Thanks for the opinions everybody, quite a mixed bag.

Not a reverse, no, but I'm posting as a member of staff who will probably not be highly affected but is very concerned about the impact on the children.

And part of the reason is that even as an adult I find writing tiring and stressful. I can only write neatly for short periods and only then if it's quiet and I can focus on it fully. So I could cry for those kids of whom the teachers say:
"Well they can write neatly so they must be MADE to do it all the time"

magpiemischief Tue 07-Nov-17 07:40:31

Obviously bad. Punishing children for any difficulty they might have learning something. It is discriminatory.

And the motivation for this? OFSTED is coming in. It is not trying to improve the learning environment for children at all. This type of sentiment is what is wrong with schools today.

scrivette Tue 07-Nov-17 08:41:29

I think it’s awful to be honest. DS really struggles with times tables, but if he is kept in at lunchtime/breaktimes he doesn’t have a chance to run around and get fresh air and be ready for learning in the afternoon.

Tomorrowillbeachicken Tue 07-Nov-17 09:42:38

Cobblers to that. Ds has SEN including dcd but is a high Cheever. He’d be spending a lot of lunchtimes in detention which would mean he couldn’t run around affecting his SPD issues.
They would not like reaction I’d give if they tried to implement it.

Tomorrowillbeachicken Tue 07-Nov-17 10:15:39

High achiever lol

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