Talk

Advanced search

Someone has a "big maths beat that" sheet they wish to share?

(44 Posts)
Arkadia Fri 06-Oct-17 13:45:37

I am looking for any sheet for Yr1 and yr2 from week 11 onwards, according to the classification on the sheet itself.

Not looking for the CLIC sheet, but the learn-its ones (i.e. the ones with sums and multiplications)

Note, you can find weeks 1-10 on the internet, so that's why I am looking for different ones.

Am I making sense?

Thanks ;)

Norestformrz Fri 06-Oct-17 17:31:17

http://www.carrington.nottingham.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Learn-Its-Challenges-Questions-England.pdf

Norestformrz Fri 06-Oct-17 17:32:25

There are only ten. When you get to ten you start again at one.

Arkadia Fri 06-Oct-17 17:47:08

Thanks,
What do you mean you "start again at 1"? Once you reach week 1 you move up a level or you start again?
I am curious because I have noticed the questions are always the same over 10 weeks, only the order changes. So I was expecting that at week 11 you would get new numbers, but same "difficulty".

Arkadia Fri 06-Oct-17 17:55:22

I see... That's a different progression from the one I looked at. There must be more than one version around. Yours looks more sensible, at least there is a progression. I wonder if they have info about timings. It would be interesting to know.
The one I found is on mathematicshed (first on Google if you look for big maths beat that). Sorry, cannot get the link.

Norestformrz Fri 06-Oct-17 17:55:45

In week one you use Wk:1 test in week 11 you use Wk: 1 test in week 22 you use Wk: 1 test in week 31 you use Wk: 1 test

Norestformrz Fri 06-Oct-17 18:00:49

My link is to the newest version and yes the tests use the same numbers for the same “Step” but in a slightly different order. The idea is to get faster at answering so it becomes an automatic response.

Arkadia Fri 06-Oct-17 19:09:13

Oh, i thought my one was the newest.

Anyway, I see now. The goal is not to know the answer but to be quick... I never really appreciated it. I knew you were supposed to beat yourself, but hadn't understood the end goal.

Norestformrz Fri 06-Oct-17 19:18:40

Challenge 1-4 should be completed in 20 seconds
Challenge 5-7 in 30 seconds
Challenge 8-13 in one minute
Challenge 14- 15 in 30 seconds
All in 90 seconds

Arkadia Fri 06-Oct-17 19:19:24

But hang on... You have 13 sets of 10 tests, plus 2 fives and 1 or 2 introductory. That means that you have to do 2-3 a year to get through the lot. "My" version, with only 6 lots would be done the way you suggest.

Arkadia Fri 06-Oct-17 19:23:09

Thank you. Very informative as ever ;)

I wish I could attend another seminar on big math. Perhaps this time around I may end up understanding a bit more :D

Anyway, the takeaway for me is that the is no link between the learn-its and beat that. For 2 years I thought there was.

Norestformrz Fri 06-Oct-17 19:26:38

This might help

Arkadia Fri 06-Oct-17 19:56:53

Up to a point... I am still not clear where you should 2 lots of tests a year for 6 years (plus the bonus ultimate) or not - and not counting the early ones that probably are dealt with in reception, if not nursery.

Norestformrz Sat 07-Oct-17 07:05:45

In reception the children should be taught steps 1 - double 1 and double 2 in term 1 and their ability to answer quickly is checked by a weekly 20 second Beat That “test” If they master that they move onto Step 2 - double 3, 4 and 5 and it’s checked by a 20 second test which covers Steps 1 and 2. When they master that they move onto step 3 and a 20 second test which covers steps 1, 2 and 3. That’s Reception.
In Y1 term 1 children are taught step 4 - 1+9=10,2+8=10,3+7=10,4+6=10 and 5+5=10. Another 20 second test cover steps 2,3&4. In term 2 they are taught Step 5 2+4,2+5,2+6,2+7,2+8,2+9,3+4, 3+5 and 3+6 and tested on steps 3, 4 and 5 (30 seconds). In term 3 they are taught Step 6 - double 6,7,8 and 9 and tested on steps 4, 5 and 6. (30 seconds)
In Y2 term 1 they are taught Step 7 - 3+8, 3+9, 4+7, 4+8, 4+9 and the 20 times table and tested on steps 5, 6 and 7 (30 seconds). Term 2 - 5+4, 5+6, 6+7, 8+7, 8+9 and the 5 times table and are tested on. Steps 6, 7 and 8 69 seconds. Term 3 they are taught 5+7, 5+8, 5+9, 6+9, 7+9, 8+9 and the 2 times table and tested on steps 7, 8 and 9 (basically a times table test)
In year 3 the 3, 4 and 8 times tables are taught steps 10, 11 and 12.
In year 4 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, 7x7, 7x9 and 9x9 (six fact challenge) basically the only six multiplication facts up to 10 times tables not covered by previous learning. In term 2 11 times tables and term 3 12 times tables. Steps 13, 14 and 15.
At that point holder should know all the addition and multiplication facts they need to complete any calculation.

Norestformrz Sat 07-Oct-17 07:08:00

It should be completed by the end of Year 4 for most children and it’s one test per week (longest takes a whole 90 seconds).

Arkadia Sat 07-Oct-17 08:53:52

Thanks a lot. Again, very informative.

I wonder why teaching it like that, though, and not all together. I can see why you do the challenges spread out over a long period of time, and why it takes time to achieve instant recall, but how can you "teach", say, 7+8 in isolation? Last year we got 2-3 facts per week to "practice", but we never knew what to do with them, so we largely ignored them. It is like saying that you do 2-3 syllables per week, and only at the end of year 4 you make words.
Perhaps the word "teach" is not appropriate in this context? Maybe you simply add "facts" to the challenges. That way it would make more sense to me.

Norestformrz Sat 07-Oct-17 09:08:41

It’s cumulative so not overloading the child’s working memory. Some children will master it all much faster and some will take longer. I’ve taught children who’ve completed it by end of Year 2 ...they then challenge themselves to answer in the shortest time.

“^*Perhaps the word "teach" is not appropriate in this context?*^*”* They are meant to be actively taught in class. Simply establish the answer (concrete examples are best place to start) then in abstract then committing to memory ...we also use jingles just as you would sing or chant timetables

Arkadia Sat 07-Oct-17 15:09:34

I wonder... How can you have cumulative effect? I mean I would expect that everybody will know what 7+8 is simply by working it out. It is not something you can actually teach as... there is nothing to teach, is there. 1+1 and 7+8 are conceptually the same thing. The fact that you don't have instant recall is a completely different issue. It is a bit like knowing the times tables exist and how to use a multiplication table, and not recalling instantly 7x6.
If you are not allowed to use ALL the sums (and multiplications) how can you use numbers in any meaningful way as you won't be able to solve even the most basic problem?
I understand the "beat that" thing and what it is trying to accomplish, but i don't see how it can be a positive thing to say that sums have to be acknowledged/learned separately.
Take the times tables, is it not easier to do a time table in its entirety (I personally advocate chanting) and then move on to the next one and introduce the lot as quickly as possible so that you can work on recall (issue 1 - memory) and on solving problems (issue 2 - reasoning) at the same time? Otherwise until year 4-5 you can do next to nothing. Issue 1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive.

Arkadia Sat 07-Oct-17 15:34:23

"sequential", not "mutually exclusive" ;)

Norestformrz Sat 07-Oct-17 15:39:24

“*^ I would expect that everybody will know what 7+8 is simply by working it out*^*”* how long will it take to work it out ? Counting fingers? Counting on? Or having instant recall ? The 7+8 could be 787+ 878 the same knowledge is required much easier if you know instantly rather than working it out every time. It could be something as simple as 150 - 80 = easy if you have instant recall.

Norestformrz Sat 07-Oct-17 15:41:23

*“*^*If you are not allowed to use ALL the sums (and multiplications)*^ *“*
If you learn the ones taught you know them all
Which don’t you think have been taught!

Arkadia Sat 07-Oct-17 19:34:49

Of course instant recall is better. Just saying that you can't really teach "7+8" because it is identical to "1+2". I mean, what is there to teach? Once you have said what a sum is there isn't much else to say. I would expect they all know it makes 15, they just don't recall it instantly.

TeenTimesTwo Sat 07-Oct-17 20:27:49

I think the whole point of Big Maths stuff is improving the 'instant recall' though isn't it?

My DD2 is in y8 and would still use her fingers to do 7+8 (despite all my attempts over the years to help her mental maths), whereas I look at it and more or less 'see' 15. In the same way I look at 169 and 'see' 13^2.

Pupils who have instant recognition of the basics can move onto harder maths more easily as they don't get distracted by the basic maths they have to do along the way.

e.g. a prime example is fractions. Someone who knows their times tables can work with fractions much more easily than someone who can't.

Arkadia Sat 07-Oct-17 21:30:47

Absolutely. Just wondering how you can teach 7+8 as you have already taught what a sum is. I find I difficult to think of what to say that is meaningful. But that is not the same as saying you shouldn't be working on instant recall.
This year we have not been blessed with them, but last year we got 2-3 addition facts per week to practice at home and I never understood what they were expecting my DD to do. We were given a list of (dare I say it) silly tasks to choose from, but it all looked meaningless. Something like do "head and shoulder, knees and toes" while chanting "7 plus 8 is 15" or such like. In the context of how the "beat that" thing progresses you can see what their goal is, but still...

TeenTimesTwo Sat 07-Oct-17 21:41:48

I don't think do you teach it (apart from maybe picturing like, take the 3 from the 8 and put it with the 7 so now you have 10 and 5 which is of course 15 - that's how I picture it in my head).

But it helps to 'know' it. So chanting, like with times tables, helps it roll off the tongue. As soon as a child hears 'seven plus eight' they immediately think 'is fifteen'.

Just like if I say 'a horse, a horse' you might come back with 'my kingdom for a horse' (if you know your Shakespeare).

The 'goal' is in knowing the answer rather than having to calculate it. Because that makes harder maths easier later on.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now