Yr 4 teacher unsatisfactory

[Shiraznowplease]

So my ds has been placed in a yr 4 class with the teacher no one wanted. She appears not to like children and has been the subject over more than 20 complaint for substandard teaching. Several parents (my very reasonable sil included) have complained about lack of progress and the need to hire tutors. My ds is very capable (has previously had exceptional SAT results) but is laid back to the extent of almost horizontal, how do I ensure that the teacher keeps him (and his classmates engaged) and progressing. What should I been checking for? Will the headmistress be monitoring this teacher due to problems this year?

[Wellthen]

How do you know this information? I'm always astonished by the amount of extremely private information mumsnetters seem to have about staff - HR would be appalled!

If you know for a FACT (I don't understand how you could but for example if the headteacher had told you/it was in the ofsted report) then you could ask the HT how they are ensuring there will be no inadequate teaching.

But, although I completely get your concerns, it is ultimately none of your business how the HT is acting on historical complaints. The rules around sharing this kind of information are very strict. I made a complaint about a colleague but was not allowed to know the outcome so I am shocked that you know complaints have been made and upheld.

[JustMumNowNotMe]

I'm dubious that you know this as fact. Sounds likwlike playground gossip to me.....

[Shiraznowplease]

Several of the parents in the class she taught last year are teachers and so are in a position to judge also the whole class SATS RESULTS are considerably down from last year and the other year 4 class are uneffected so it was not the paper. We have a what's app group and people were saying (and I have seen several of the reports myself) that the results are saying not consistent with last years results. My dn had a hospital appointment in march when the spelling reading assessment was done and despite both my sil and bil going into school in July it has still to be completed. The number of people who have complained is common knowledge on the playground as people have said when they have gone in. Additionally my bil parents are retired headteachers and they have said that the quality of work my dn has been given isn't what they would be happy with. Several of the parents wrote letters asking for their dc not to be placed in her class. Thus is not merely playground tittle tattle. Last year mid year several parents took out dcs and sent to local private school, I could go on ....

[Shiraznowplease]

Grr spell check unaffected not uneffected 🙄

[Shiraznowplease]

Wellthen, I beg to differ the historical complaints (the most recent of which was yesterday) are entirely my concern if they have not been sufficiently dealt with then it will be an ongoing problem for my dc and his classmates. I know of at least two who have been referred to the governing body by the parents involved as they were not happy with the outcome. I do not wish to partake in a witch hunt or move my ds to a private school away from his friends however I cannot allow a whole year of school to be wasted. I merely asked if anyone has ideas of what I can do to check that he is progressing appropriately. It speaks volumes that she is the only teacher in the school that there is no end of year collection for!

[Wellthen]

Thus is not merely playground tittle tattle. Actually technically almost everything you've said so far is.

Poor quality of work in books and comparing experiences of the year 4 classes - these are genuine evidence.

Someone saying they made a complaint - after investigation was it found to be a valid complaint? This is not information you will be privy to.

The SATs results are low - how do you know this? Please don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying you're wrong!! I'm just surprised that information that I would be disciplined for sharing is apparently common knowledge at your school!

The only information that you actually KNOW is that people don't like her and some have complained. Which may be for good reason. But unfortunately there is little you can do until your child is in her class.

The HT must ensure high quality teaching across her school and if complaints have been made she will be acting on them. But she must also protect her staff and treat them with dignity. It is completely inappropriate for complaints or results to be discussed in the playground.

[Wellthen]

I never said it wasn't your concern, I said the actions of the HT are not your business.

I would be hugely concerned in your position! I'm simply trying to extort lain that there are rules - the HT will be unable to share information with you even if they wanted to.

If you personally have grounds for a complaint then that is different.

If you really genuinely know the SATs scores then you can enquire on that basis I think. But be prepared for her to simply say 'it won't happen' and nothing more.

[Wellthen]

Explain not extort lain...whoever lain is

[Mrskeats]

Most of this is gossip
This is why teachers leave the profession
Do you feel the teacher could comment on how well you do your job op?

[LadyPenelope68]

Children do not do compulsory SATS in Year 4 so how can results be down? It's all playground gossip, you have no real evidence that 20 people have made official complaints, could just be 20 people moaning. If there have been formal complaint then these will have been fully investigated by the governing body and action upheld.

The children in a cohort can make a massive difference to results, just because any results may be lower this year doesn't mean it's poor teaching, it could be lower ability children. School don't publish everyone's individual results so you cannot know whether ALL results are down.

[AllPizzasGreatAndSmall]

Year 4 do not take SATs. They may sit assessments as one tool to help inform the teacher of progress, the results of which are not made public, so no idea how you can know how the WHOLE class did. If your niece missed a test in March (what is a spelling reading test anyway?) why would they be still pushing for her to do it in July?

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Not every year at school does every child improve/ develop in the same way. Just because one child didn't 'do well' with one teacher doesn't mean another won't.
With the benefit in hindsight ( DD is going into year 9) she has had good and bad years all through primary year 2 was a particular lie point, year 5 she seemed to 'mark time' and year 8 Maths has not been great. Equally teachers that have not been great for other DC have been fab for DD. Other children had different years that have difficult for various reasons, overall none of them are behind where we would expect them to be.
School has a finite number of teachers who are not all the same and have different strengths and weaknesses. You need to give this a chance year 4 again with hindsight is a bit of a 'nothing year' they are not new in juniors, they are not really close to SATS and it is a lot about consolidation in my experience before a push on in year 5, year 8 is a bit like this too. If overall the school is doing well the structure of their approach is likely to be right.

[JustMumNowNotMe]

Christ, you have a WhatsApp group with other parents?! Potentially crap teacher aside, this is ridiculous! Talk about over-involved!

[Shiraznowplease]

Lady Penelope, we live in Wales where we have standardised testing, they show graphically where the children were this year compared to last year and also where they lie according to all other tests taken. The what's app group shows photographic evidence that the children's results were inconsistent (actually written out by an independent body!)
Mrskeats, I am a member of a profession where my fitness to practice can be commented on by members of the public whose care I am involved with, the teacher is free to complain if needed.
As I stated earlier, I have proof, photographic and independently assessed, how I wish it was merely playground tittle tattle, especially as the other year group class results were consistent

[OhTheRoses]

How about writing to the head and thanking her for your ds's excellent experiences so far and noting that you look forward to working collaboratively with the school to ensure he remains on an upward trajectory.

We had similar op. Dreadful Y4 teacher but she was a bully too. There was an urban myth that if parent's complained she made the children's lives worse. Our d's made no progress in her year and became very unhappy. Each year she seemed to target and pull down the high performing all rounders. Her teaching methods were poor.

We did complain and she backed off a bit but it didn't make d's happier and we did move him. However I made it clear in the playground that he hadn't suffered more and the following year there were more formal complaints. The year after that she left. But you'd think the HT would have been able to deal with it sooner wouldn't you.

Back then yr 4 was where they put the rubbish teachers.

Good job we moved ds when we did though because he had a lot of catching up to do in the independentvsector although he was one of the brightest in the class.

[Mrskeats]

I couldn't get over the whatsapp group either
Would you feel that the public should have knowledge of a complaint against you?

[Mrskeats]

'Her teaching methods were poor'
How can you possibly know this?

[Shiraznowplease]

As for year 4 being a nothing year, we have national tests annually however to write off a whole year of school?! There are currently campaigns to say every day in school counts and every day missed even at primary will effect GCSE results, I saw no annotations excluding year 4. I think I will leave this thread, I was hoping for practical advice how I could proceed and make the most of an awful situation, this hasn't proved to be the outcome.

[Shiraznowplease]

Thank you Ohtheroses, that is really helpful. I think we will give her a term before seeing about private school

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Is it that unusual to have a Facebook or WhatsApp group? We have a fave book group it's for reminders mainly and passing on information it's useful as many kids forget their spellings or lose a jumper etc

[Wellthen]

I had a complaint made about me once...

She doesn't smile - obviously easy to prove this isn't true

She is rude to the children - zero evidence found after child, parent and TA interviews (they obviously weren't told why)

She singled a child out by singing everyone happy birthday except them - on further investigation, I was off on their birthday

She didn't let x go to the toilet that 1 time - x had been to the toilet 10minutes before and was displaying difficult behaviour that I wanted to keep in the classroom.

Note none of these are about safety, teaching or progress.

More than 1 parent from that class commented on what a difference I'd made and how their child had progressed. Some parents like you, some don't. shrug

Is it fair that everyone knows 'wellthen has had complaints made about her' when these complaints are groundless and petty?

[Ylvamoon]

I think you can't judge, unless you have experienced the poor teaching yourself.
A lot of other factors have to be taken into account when looking at a class performance.
The teacher might not be up to standard... you don't know, but test outcome can only be as good as the student taking the test.

[Wellthen]

You have been given advice which is - you'll have to wait until September.

If you've seen the results - fine, you have evidence. But there is still nothing you can do. The HT will not share info because if she did and the teacher was then forced out the school could be sued.

You can't just sack people. Even if they're shit. I do see this is immensely frustrating.

[Twillow]

Its horrible news. I once had DS placed with a vile teacher, who from volunteering in school was the last one I would have wanted. Best advice I had from a friend when I considered moving DS was - there will always be that one year you'd rather not have had for your child. Support them through it emotionally and educationally, rather than disrupt their life by moving them. And try to keep your anxiety away from your child so they have the best shot at progress - knowing that you think the teacher is rubbish isn't going to help your child at all. I stuck with it and the teacher had their strengths as well as weaknesses.

[user789653241]

I think judging a teacher from playground gossip or rumours is not a good idea.
You don't know her yet!
I have experience of bad teacher in my view was actually well liked and raved about by others, and best teacher for my ds was slagged off as useless by some other parents to my surprise.
Also parents' view and children's view may differ as well.