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advice wanted on KS2 SATS results please - scores and teacher assessments disagree?

(24 Posts)
elfing Wed 05-Jul-17 22:27:25

My dd has got her SATs results. All year long, we have been told by her teacher she would be getting 'at greater depth' in everything except for writing, which she is not as strong at.

Today we got the results and dd's standardised test scores in all subjects were, as expected, comfortably over 110 and so in greater depth territory.

But the teacher assessments all say 'Working at expected standard'. So no 'at greater depth' at all.

Have I misunderstood how the form has been completed? I simply do not understand why the teacher judgement disagrees so much with both all the scores AND what she (the teacher) has been saying all year?

Also, in terms of informing decisions at secondary, does anyone know if it will be the scores or the teacher assessments that they take into account?

Thank you.

OP’s posts: |
LittleMissCrappy Wed 05-Jul-17 22:33:54

A- does it really matter?

B- the only person who can answer is the teacher.

DS does have some differences between exam results and teacher's assessments, I was expecting that. Not an issue. Many children perform better in exam situations, or have been trained to perform at t sets, others do much better in regular classroom assessments.

UnicornPug Wed 05-Jul-17 22:37:58

I'm pretty sure teachers can only assess at Working at or Working towards/below. They can't say greater depth, except for in writing.

IcanMooCanYou Wed 05-Jul-17 22:38:00

The teacher can't assess any subject other thank writing at greater depth. We can only select 'working towards' or 'working at' (or some pre-key stage ones if working significantly below. It sucjs and makes no sense, but that's the way it is!

elfing Wed 05-Jul-17 22:40:15

LittleMissCrappy -

A - depends what you mean by 'really'? If it impacts on secondary school sets, for example, then yes, it could 'really matter'. Not in an end of the world way, but still a significant way. Dd is not a very confident child, so it matters to her. If you're 11 and your teacher marks you down lower in every single subject than you were expecting, in the first public exams you've ever taken, that the school has done pretty much nothing other than drill you for for the last year, it matters to you.

B - was trying to check if I'd read the form right. Would it say 'at greater depth' somewhere on the form if dd had achieved it?

OP’s posts: |
elfing Wed 05-Jul-17 22:42:20

Thank you ICan!

Does that mean that the wording will be 'Working at expected standard' automatically for every subject except Writing?

Or have some people been given 'At greater depth' for things other than Writing?

OP’s posts: |
PatriciaHolm Wed 05-Jul-17 22:45:15

Does that mean that the wording will be 'Working at expected standard' automatically for every subject except Writing?

yes. There is nothing past "working at expected" in the government measures.

Or have some people been given 'At greater depth' for things other than Writing?

Not in the standard KS2 results, no. Schools can put whatever spin on it they like in children's reports, but that will be school specific and irrelevant to secondaries, who will just look at the scores.

elfing Wed 05-Jul-17 22:47:04

Thank you, PatriciaHolm.

When you say secondaries will just look at the scores, do you mean the standardised scores? Are they given these, then?

OP’s posts: |
PatriciaHolm Wed 05-Jul-17 23:08:38

Secondaries will receive the standardised scores, yes. But most will do their own baseline tests too - for a start, some children won't have done SATS, plus the new tests are mostly unknown quantities at the moment still so secondaries won't want to rely on them as predictors of future capability.

elfing Wed 05-Jul-17 23:18:06

Thank you. smile

Feeling more cheerful now.

Poor dd has had to waste spend so much time on these stupid tests, that to get good marks and then still not have it recognised would be really frustrating!

OP’s posts: |
Neolara Wed 05-Jul-17 23:23:28

I don't think the government announces what they consider the pass mark for "working at greater depth" for a couple of weeks..

DilysMoon Wed 05-Jul-17 23:25:02

Our HT today told me that our high school don't take SATS into account but base sets initially on the Primary's own assessment of the pupil which he has already provided pre sats results. Does this sound right?

cantkeepawayforever Thu 06-Jul-17 09:50:03

It sounds entirely possible.

Your child's GCSE targets (and the school's Progress measure) will be based on their SATs results. This means that the school has a vested interest in making sure that e.g. a child with very high SATs results doesn't end up in a lower set on a permanent basis, unless it turns out that the SATs results represent a 'blip' and the child in fact learns best within that lower set.

Equally, though, if SATs results are lower but the child performs extremely well in class and in secondary tests, the school would be foolish not to put them into the highest set possible, as that will improve their progress results no end.

I suppose what I'm saying is that school reports are as good as any way to set initially, as long as the school reassesses regularly and also keeps a weather eye open on SATs results and thus 'expected' GCSE results, identifying children falling behind or steaming ahead of expected trajectory.

Hoppinggreen Thu 06-Jul-17 09:52:19

My DD had the highest score in her SATS in the school year of 90 children and according to her assessment was " working at the expected standard"
I wouldn't worry about it

PatriciaHolm Thu 06-Jul-17 10:48:43

Last year, the Gov stated that achieving a score of 110 or greater in maths and reading meant the child had achieved "a higher standard". They haven't said whether that applies this year, and it's not an option for teachers to assess at that level other than in writing.

igivein Thu 06-Jul-17 13:17:24

Thanks Ican & Patricia my DS's scores were good, but the teacher assessment results all say 'working at expected'.
Why the heck do they put greater depth on the key if the teacher can't award it?
I'm the governor with responsibility for Standards & Curriculum, and if it doesn't make sense to me what chance have the rest of the parents got?

DilysMoon Thu 06-Jul-17 21:13:41

Thanks cantkeepawayforever.

LilyBolero Thu 06-Jul-17 21:20:19

yes, the secondary school can do their own tests if they want, but ultimately they will be judged on how the child performs at the end of Y11 set against targets projected from their KS2 results - the FFT scores - and these are set externally.

However, the whole grading system is in such turmoil at the moment, they have no data to play with, and it's going to be massive guesswork, plus there is no standardised assessment system now for Y7-10 now that NC levels are no more.

Sounds like she's done fine!

SafeToCross Thu 06-Jul-17 21:21:50

Get used to it, her results will set her expected standard for all through secondary, and it is very hard to get 'above expected' when your targets are mainly 8s and 9s. My dd gets very demoralised comparing her report with her friends, as the friend underperformed in her SATs, has lower targets, and tends to exceed them. Best just praise effort and be done with focusing on arbitrary tests and targets.

grumpysquash3 Fri 07-Jul-17 21:07:19

So is 'above expected' roughly the equivalent of a level 6 under the previous SATs assessment?
I am really confused sad

MrGrumpy01 Fri 07-Jul-17 21:14:01

So the teachers assessment can only be greater depth for writing and elsewhere expected standard is the top.

In terms of the test outcomes would anything over 100 just say Achieved standard or do higher scores say something else?

Whatawaytomakealiving Fri 07-Jul-17 21:17:04

Yep, at the need of all that work children have either reached the expected standard or not. Just be pleased if your child has; spare a thought for those children that haven't. Grim for children.

Whatawaytomakealiving Fri 07-Jul-17 21:21:55

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/625036/Information_for_parents_-_2017_NCT_results_at_the_end_of_key_stage_2.pdf

Information for parents.

MrGrumpy01 Fri 07-Jul-17 21:31:35

Thank you what. I agree that in terms of self esteem (if that is the right word) the 'levels that are not levels' are harsh, much harsher than the previous levels were, where it wasn't so black and white.

I'm keeping it off Facebook. I know for many it will have been a difficult time.

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