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School appeal help please

(20 Posts)
maxybrown Wed 19-Oct-16 22:01:16

Can anyone tell me how we can find out if other children have been admitted to a certain school/class?

We have been turned down and are awaiting our appeal date but we have reason to believe another child has been admitted to the school in the same year group in the mean time!

Just wondered how we found out the information to support our appeal in that the LA acted unreasonably.

ShowOfHands Wed 19-Oct-16 22:06:35

Have you asked the school directly or the LA if appropriate? They won't give personal details but will confirm numbers admitted and the criteria they fit into.

Why were you turned down? What year too?

LIZS Wed 19-Oct-16 22:07:39

I don't think that would help your case. If another child has been admitted they may have met higher criteria, lived closer, have an ehcp or be lac, or had a successful appeal themselves. They may have been placed ahead of you on the waiting list. Assuming this is an infant class size appeal, your argument shouldn't centre around the circumstances of another child but that your application was not treated in accordance with the admissions criteria and had it been your dc would have got a place.

Undersmile Wed 19-Oct-16 22:22:13

They may have an EHCPlan, in which case, I believe the school can go over PAN. Or they may be LAC.

PatriciaHolm Wed 19-Oct-16 22:23:13

As Liz says, there are a number of reasons another child could have been admitted. They could have won their appeal, or got to the top of the waiting list as a child left.

Do you have any specific reason to believe their admission was incorrect?

The admissions authority should be able to tell you if another child has been admitted, but they won't be able to give you personal specifics.

Thatwaslulu Wed 19-Oct-16 22:23:55

Could be fair access protocol case.

Tomorrowillbeachicken Wed 19-Oct-16 23:19:35

Unless you know full circumstances it would probably be unwise to bring it up.

meditrina Thu 20-Oct-16 10:10:25

It's worth seeing if you can find out what us happening, because an error which deprives you of a place which should have been yours is grounds to win an appeal.

However, you don't know that there has been an error in admitting this pupil (SEN, FAP, successful appeal in cut and dried circumstances,, or just top of the waiting list when a vacancy occurred)

What year group are you appealing for? And is you appeal based in an error in handling your application, or balance of prejudice?

maxybrown Thu 20-Oct-16 19:47:01

Thanks everyone.

I obviously wouldn't bring it up without fully knowing. I know the child is not LAC or EHCP. I don't want to say too much about the child - just in case really!

We were refused due to balance of prejudice as the class is already 4 over PAN. My son has special needs but not behavioural issues. It is year 4.

I just wondered, when they ask you to provide evidence if you believe the LA has acted unlawfully or however it is worded - how you actually get that information in the first place!

I have seen other people's appeals when they have stated things they found out and won because of it and I wondered how they knew.

LyndaLaHughes Thu 20-Oct-16 21:34:12

How many are in the class? Does your child have a EHCP?

eddiemairswife Thu 20-Oct-16 22:13:50

If it is year4, it won't be infant class size. The child may have got in from the waiting list or as the result of a successful appeal. If so then unreasonableness doesn't come into it,

Supertrooperloopthelooper Thu 20-Oct-16 23:09:39

I don't think you should be concentrating on the fact that you think they are acting unlawfully. You need to prove that your child does not go to this school in particular they will be "damaged"

The onus is on your to argue his case, not to disprove others. It will not help you o moan about other kids. On a related note, if you think they are intentionally keeping him out of the school, why are you considering sending him there? The attitude will only get worse and more underhand.

PatriciaHolm Fri 21-Oct-16 08:25:40

The admissions authority will be able to tell you if someone has been admitted, but as said, they can't tell you the specifics as to why (though they might say "got in on appeal" - but not reasons the appeal was allowed).

Mistakes are normally something like the LA got your distance from school wrong, your postcode incorrect, or forgot to add you to a waiting list and admitted someone else when a space became available.

None of that is likely to be a factor here as you are wanting an in-year place, so distances etc are only relevant for ranking the waiting list and with the class being 4 over PAN already then no-one is going to be admitted off the list until it goes under PAN - so 5 children have to leave.

You need to prove that the detriment to the school of admitting is less than the detriment to your child of not being admitted. To be honest, an admission panels is going to be very reluctant to admit another child into such an already overcrowded year unless there is something strange going on and the school actually has a lot of spare space/TAs etc. (I sit on appeals panels)

Thatwaslulu Fri 21-Oct-16 08:42:21

I got an in-year year 6 place for my DS at an oversubscribed, full school a few years ago. My argument was based on the research which showed that it is no more detrimental to have 31 pupils in a class than 30, as the level of disadvantage kicks in at 16 pupils and doesn't increase dramatically between 30 and 31 (ie the pupils in a class of 30 are already disadvantaged because there are more than 15 in the class, so one more pupil doesn't make much difference). My son had no special needs but had been bullied, the admissions panel wanted to place him in a CofE school instead but I felt strongly that I didn't want a faith school. Going prepared helped, as I had researched the effects and could talk about what I had found. It didn't stop them quoting research disproving that, but they conceded that it was a fair argument. Make sure you know your argument inside out and can hold your own with the panel rather than just saying your reason is that you like that school - be clear about why that school for that child.

user1477074662 Fri 21-Oct-16 20:09:00

Hi,i just wanted to ask, does anyone know,? if you move your child from one school to another,how long does there old school have to keep there place open ?,its an in year transition.Just to say if the child does not get on in there new school,say after 2 days,are they allowed back to there old school?This happened to us,i telephoned my childs old school and they said he had been taken off the school role,Its only been 2 days and now they are saying appeal to school admissions,but now they are over subscribe and i also was told,some child took his place.Surely we should of been given more time.Thanks

spanieleyes Fri 21-Oct-16 20:14:43

You are not given any time at all. Once you have left the school, you have left! Can you imagine the opposite-your child starts at a new school and after a couple of days the school says "Sorry, we've changed our minds, we don't have a vacancy after all!"

PatriciaHolm Fri 21-Oct-16 20:20:25

Assuming it wasn't a managed move, designed to help a child who is at risk of permanent exclusion try another school, then as the previous poster says, once you are on roll elsewhere the previous place is gone. You don't get to try before you buy!

smellyboot Sun 23-Oct-16 11:31:23

You chose to move school. Some one was waiting for a place. You left. They get offered the space. That's how it works...

prh47bridge Mon 24-Oct-16 12:58:50

Agree with others.

Under the regulations it is generally the case that when your child takes up a place at another school they will automatically be removed from the roll at their original school. If there is a waiting list their place will be allocated to whoever was at the head of the list. They school cannot hold the place open for you in case you change your mind. That isn't how it works.

LadyConstanceDeCoverlet Mon 24-Oct-16 13:03:56

OP, even if you got positive proof that a place had been given to another child without good reason, it wouldn't help your appeal. With a class that is already four over PAN, the appeal panel still has to be satisfied that the potential prejudice to your child outweighs the prejudice involved in adding another child to the class. To be honest, if admitting your child will take numbers to 36 I wouldn't be too keen on pursuing the appeal.

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