# Talk

## How does Scottish primary teaching compare in year 2 (age 6 and 7)

(21 Posts)
AGenie Sat 24-Sep-16 16:09:02

Hi,

I wondered if any Scottish Primary School teachers could look at this and tell me how their Primary 2 teaching of numeracy compares with this list of the topics to be covered in year 2 in England? My sense is that Scotland teaches kids numeracy topics later, and I think this incredibly valuable, but I'd be glad to know whether I'm right in thinking this.

Here is the list of year 2 topics that I got from the book "Maths for Mums and Dads":

3 times table,
count backwards and forwards
place value - identifying tens and ones in two digit numbers
use this to solve problems
fluently add pairs of numbers totaling up to 20
figure out related calculations to 100
odd and even numbers
addition and multiplication can be done in any order
subtraction and division cannot
relationship between addition and subtraction, multiplication and division
Fractions: 1/3, 1/4, 2/4, 3/4 of lengths, shapes and collections of objects
Time: quarter past and quarter to, and five minute intervals.
Patterns, position, direction and movement.
quarter, half and three-quarter turns
Pictograms, tally charts, block diagrams, simple tables

This seems a lot to me. Ds is still getting his head around adding to 20, and not very speedily. I can't understand how they can hope to cover all this stuff. I know I only started fractions in year 2 and that was in an English school in the 80s.

Things were much better (slower) paced when I moved to Scotland and I wish I could get that for my ds too.

Does anyone know if the Scottish schools are also trying to cover all this stuff for year 2 kids?

Year 2 in England, btw, is kids who have only just turned 6 at the start of the year up to kids who will have already turned 7 in the first week of the year.

Thanks!

mrz Sat 24-Sep-16 16:28:35

Expectations by the end of Y2 in England

Sat 24-Sep-16 16:35:30

Year 2 isn't the same as Primary 2 though. Is Year 2 not more broadly equivalent to Primary 3?

SprogletsMum Sat 24-Sep-16 16:38:43

The stuff on that list though is what they'll know by the end of year 2 not the beginning and you'll be surprised at how fast they pick it up.
When I went for meetings about year 2 expectations at the start of the year last year I thought ds didn't stand a chance of being where they wanted him to be, but he was and in some areas was ahead of where they said he'd be.
Just support your ds and the school and he'll be fine.

TheTroubleWithAngels Sat 24-Sep-16 16:45:12

Y2 is roughly equivalent to P3.

P3 is halfway through First Level (P2-P4). There are no specific government outcomes for each stage, but you can look at the overview for First Level if you would like.

www.educationscotland.gov.uk/images/numeracy_mathematics_experiences_outcomes_tcm4-539878.pdf

Lord, that's clear as mud, isn't it?

AGenie Sat 24-Sep-16 17:00:24

I don't think year 2 is equivalent to p3 as far as the age of the children is concerned. Is it equivalent to p3 in curriculum terms? I mean are they teaching year 2 children in England the same as they are teaching p3 children in Scotland?

Year 2 is children who are going to turn 7 after the 1st September on the year that they enter year 2.

AGenie Sat 24-Sep-16 17:03:53

I see what you mean Angels. It's just got a bit more leeway.

TheTroubleWithAngels Sat 24-Sep-16 17:04:50

Y2 is the third year of school. So is P3.

Our P3s this year were born March 2009 - Feb 2010. The oldest are now 7, the youngest are 6 and a half.

Sat 24-Sep-16 17:10:10

Yes P3 is roughly the same age (6 and a half to 7 and a half)

mrz Sat 24-Sep-16 17:42:07

Our Y2 children were born between September 2009 and August 2010.

AGenie Sat 24-Sep-16 18:37:59

So the y2 folks are six months younger than the p3s.

Do you feel as though the year 2 curriculum is the same as the p3? It's hard to tell from the Scottish version as it gives quite a lot of leeway to the teacher to decide how to pace things.

Euphemia Sat 24-Sep-16 19:56:45

There isn't a "P3 curriculum". Children are assessed at the start of the year, and taught according to progression pathways which set out what the next steps are following what they already know.

There are three levels across primary school:

Early: the final two years of early learning and childcare before a child goes to school and P1, or later for some.
First: to the end of P4, but earlier or later for some.
Second: to the end of P7, but earlier or later for some.

Euphemia Sat 24-Sep-16 19:59:55

Have a look here for more details of progression in Numeracy and Mathematics.

TheTroubleWithAngels Sat 24-Sep-16 20:09:25

I think that we probably teach more or less the same skills but I do think that we still take more time up here (huge generalisation, I know) to cover them.

Y2 SATs bring a lot more pressure to cover things and with that younger cohort... makes a difference.

AGenie Sun 25-Sep-16 06:10:16

Angels yes I see what you mean. My ds is heading toward yr2 SATs at the moment.

The school was pushing him to "learn" stamina last year getting him to do whole sheets of additions, when they hadn't realised that he couldn't do additions at all and was just copying a neighbour.

It worries me about where that goes as the pressure piles one later. I think he's very much a late developer, but will get there. I don't see him getting there on the SATs timetable though and worry that the school don't have the leeway to teach him to his own developmental timetable.

blaeberry Mon 26-Sep-16 23:10:12

The curriculum for excellence isn't. There seems a general consensus amongst parents and secondary teachers I know that maths teaching in Scotland has got worse with the CfE.

AGenie Tue 27-Sep-16 01:09:38

Thanks, that's useful to know. I think you are still doing well without the SATs though. They are a waste of time.

mrz Tue 27-Sep-16 05:56:35
mrz Tue 27-Sep-16 05:59:29
Euphemia Tue 27-Sep-16 07:11:41

The proposed standardised tests will not be like SATS. Scottish teachers and our unions won't allow that.

It's not what the SNP wants, anyway: "A Scottish Government spokesman said: 'The new standardised assessments will inform teachers’ professional judgments and will automatically generate individual reports to show where a child is doing well and where further support may be required.

'Assessments will be age and stage appropriate, and pupils will prepare for them in the same way as other routine classroom learning activities – there will be no pass or fail mark.'"

blaeberry Tue 27-Sep-16 07:23:51

The proportion of primary pupils in Scotland performing well or very well in numeracy fell by 10% over the last five years (under the SNP).

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