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Can someone please explain to me why 11+ tuition starts from the beginning of year 4?

(19 Posts)
midnightlurker Tue 30-Aug-16 17:34:30

Two years of Maths, NVR and VR? I totally understand doing classes in Y5, but why an extra year?

JogWithADog Tue 30-Aug-16 17:37:07

I'm not sure it does, surely it's up to the parents when to start with tutoring. It's usually Yr5 where I am although DD started halfway through Yr4 as she needed extra help with maths anyway and it definitely did make a difference.

user1471734618 Tue 30-Aug-16 17:38:12

well your child must be at a private school, and they want to show that their leavers go on to 'good' schools...ergo 11 + tuition for most of junior school....
I am surprised that this was not clear when you signed up.

midnightlurker Tue 30-Aug-16 17:40:36

Not my child - a friend's. They have signed up and are paying for two years of lessons at one of those tuition places.

user1471734618 Tue 30-Aug-16 17:42:49

oh I see - so not in her regular school then?
Why not ask the friend in that case?

ErrolTheDragon Tue 30-Aug-16 17:45:41

Maybe they don't have much confidence in their child's abilities? Or they've been conned by the tuition industry which tries to present this as a good/necessary thing to do.

For some, 'tuition' consists of some practice papers during the hols before yr6.

That1950sMum Tue 30-Aug-16 17:46:36

Because people are stupid enough to pay for it!

Gizlotsmum Tue 30-Aug-16 17:47:14

I am thinking of doing this with my dd as she is entering year 4. My reasons are to make it less pressured, more just something she does and give her a solid knowledge not hot house her to pass the test. You can get books aimed for 8-9 yr olds just to get them used to the format, type of question and thought process required. I am doing it myself not with a tutor as if she did get to grammar school we wouldn't be able to afford a tutor so we need to be her support

Needmoresleep Tue 30-Aug-16 19:43:51

Pretty standard afaik. Exams are all about speed. One reason why plenty of people opt out of 11+. Hours can increase significantly in yr 5, and there are lots of more fun things children could be doing.

Dixiechickonhols Tue 30-Aug-16 20:01:30

Yr 5 seems to be norm around here. But I can see why some would do yr 4, tutors book up so there is panic if you don't get a slot you may not get one in yr 5. Keeping up with the Jones - if everyone else is signing up yr 4. Needing to pass out of catchment - so needing a very high score, really needing to pass as no good alternatives, tuition centre group tuition not one on one tuition will take more time to cover topics but cheaper.

What current school is like. As a mum of a DC about to sit the main issue seems to be they need to know the whole of the yr 6 curriculum by end of yr 5. This is fine if school has covered it but if not the child needs teaching the content not just exam prep.

PettsWoodParadise Tue 30-Aug-16 22:17:13

I think the tutor and learning centre industry would like you to think this but it isn't usual IME. DD starts at grammar in Sept. We home tutored from start of y5 but it was very lightweight even then. We were also going for a superselective place. i did meet some who tutored from part way through Y4 but they usually fell into the category of 1) not being native English speakers themselves so extra English tuition would be a good boost, 2) they were at a state school sitting for an independent or our local superselective boys grammar and the maths required was a level not covered by the national curriculum, 3) the child was a grafter but not obviously bright so with the right help they might get a place or 4) the child was bright but didn't want to do the test. The latter group were the hardest to deal with if you started too early as they just got bored and switched off.

Idliketobeabutterfly Wed 31-Aug-16 18:13:08

I think it is from yr5 here for the Birmingham grammars.

simpson Thu 01-Sep-16 00:14:23

DS was beginning of yr5.

SmileAndNod Thu 01-Sep-16 06:51:55

Two close friends children started in year 3 - one passed and one didn't.
And I also know a dC who has been going since year 1. When I was panicking about this, DC1 teacher said 10 sessions in year 5 should be enough.
Hard to know what to do isn't it maybe just not bother

namechangedtoday15 Thu 01-Sep-16 15:26:21

Not the norm here - children start in October of Year 5.

But there will always be parents who think their child needs extra help / think they'll be ahead of the game if they start in Year 4 etc.

smellyboot Fri 02-Sep-16 08:04:21

We are near a grammar school area. Most are happy to not be in a grammar area. Some aspire to move accoss to grammars in neighbouring LA, esp from one local faith primary.
Yr5 is normal, Yr4 is common and Yr3 increasingly so. In the neighbouring grammar LA it's the same, except that almost all DC trying for a grammar are tutored. It's a huge industry in that area. There is a very real level of paranoia that if you don't tutor intensively, they won't stand a chance of getting in. The affluent families obviously have more chance of the best tutors for the longest. It's hugely divisive. The state primaries in the area claim to be the best but results are heavily skewed by the huge tutor industry... Awful

AngelsWithSilverWings Fri 02-Sep-16 08:12:54

It usually starts in y5 here.

My DS started 11plus maths tuition in Jan this year and will take the test in Sept.

He did start having tuition in English to improve his creative writing at the start of Y4 but that wasn't 11plus specific ( although the tutor has switched to 11 plus prep in the last 6 months)

There was a lot of talk in y4 about booking in early because of a shortage of tutors but I had no problem finding a great tutor when we needed one.

Toomanycats99 Fri 02-Sep-16 08:12:59

I'm in a super selective area (think that's right phrase!) my daughter is starting 121 next month at start of year 5, 1 hour per week. I had spoken to another group tutoring centre several months ago who suggested she would need 4 hours a week of group tutoring.

I was horrified - in my view if she needs 4 hours a week then surely she should not be going there and secondly I wasn't putting her through that she would be sick of it by the time the exam comes round!

tiggytape Fri 02-Sep-16 11:44:13

Competition for places is another factor. We live within commuting distance of some London superselectives and have witnessed the ramping up of pressure and numbers. The numbers applying for a place have gone up by nearly 1000 per school just in the last 7 years or so.

It used to be that people started coaching in the January of Year 5 (but a few years ago some 11+ exams were held in November - January of Year 6 so that still gave a year to prepare). Now the very start of Year 5 is seen as the norm but many start at some point in Year 4 (perhaps filling in gaps of knowledge if not actual 11+ coaching) and a few very dedicated people start as early as Year 2. That was unheard of until recently.

It isn't just about being naturally bright and prepared for the exam. With so many others applying who are also bright and prepared for the exam, and all in direct competition with each other, anything that gains just a few extra marks is important.

The style of some exams has changed forcing some people to feel more preparation is needed than before.
Many 11+ exams used to be 2 or 3 multiple choice papers of a challenging but not impossible standard.
Now some schools have moved to the CEM Durham papers where timing is really tricky and even the brightest pupil may not finish unless they are both familiar with the question types and practiced at maintaining speed for the whole exam. Other schools have added a writing element as a bit of a tie-breaker and so, as well as passing all the maths and vocab tests, candidates also need to be taught (some parents feel) how to write to a standard that will set them apart in allocating those crucial final marks.
Other schools have introduced a stage 1 and stage 2 aspect to the testing process so again, there is more to learn and to practice before the exams than there once was.

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