Larmenier Sacred Heart Primary Hammersmith admissions - which oversubscription criteria?

(14 Posts)
ImmaculateInception Thu 21-Apr-16 21:54:20

Does anyone out there who has knowledge of catholic school admissions as to whether my DS has a ground for appeal?
We're a Catholic / CofE church going household. DS was baptised in a CofE church at 12 weeks and received at the age of 2.1 into the Catholic Church. Regular weekly attendance at Catholic mass and got all the proper reference from the priest etc etc.

So, my question is: my DS was placed in criteria 4 in the over subscription criteria, but I think that maybe he should have been placed in criteria 3 as there is only one baptism and he was in fact baptised. It still probably wouldn't mean he got a place at the school but it would drive him up the waiting list.

What do the experts think? I reckon from reading below a catholic baptism isn't specified but I have no idea how to set about sorting this out.

Oversubscription Criteria

1. Catholic ‘Looked After’ children and Catholic Children who have been adopted (or made subject to child arrangements orders or special guardianship orders) immediately after having been looked after.
2. Children baptised* within 12 months of birth from practising Catholic** families who are resident in the parish of Brook Green. (Parish map included in Admissions pack)
3. Children baptised* within 12 months of birth from practising Catholic** families who are resident in other parishes.
4. Children baptised after 12 months from the date of birth from practising Catholic** families.

* Baptised means Catholic families who have had their child baptised in accordance with current code of Canon Law 867 appended to this document. All applications must be supported by an original Baptismal Certificate, so that it can be checked and photocopied by the school.
** ‘Practising Catholic’ a Catholic child from a practising Catholic family where this practice is verified by a reference from a Catholic priest in the standard format laid down by the Diocese.

BAPTISM Canon 867. §1 Parents are obliged to see that their infants are baptised within the first few weeks. As soon as possible after the birth, indeed even before it, they are to approach the parish priest to ask for the sacrament for their child, and to be themselves duly prepared for it. §2 If the infant is in danger of death, it is to be baptised without any delay.

SecretSpy Thu 21-Apr-16 21:58:13

I would interpret that as meaning a Catholic baptism, tbh.

PatriciaHolm Thu 21-Apr-16 22:19:36

Canon law 867 referred to is a reference to Catholic canon law, so I would also interpret that as meaning catholic baptism I'm afraid.

fredfredgeorgejnrsnr Thu 21-Apr-16 22:30:24

If it's not a catholic baptism then it wouldn't meet criteria 4, so by putting it in criteria 4 they are conceding it's a baptism in so far as the criteria stand surely?

meditrina Thu 21-Apr-16 22:33:44

You need to quote back canon law 868, which states that, unless they thought CofE baptism invalid (in general and I thought there were no issues, or your DD's in particular and they don't seem to have said there is).

Because if her valid baptism was carried out on the timelines of 867, and it is recognised as valid under 868 (to the extent that the RC church will not carry it out again) then a I think you have a case worth presenting.

Northey Thu 21-Apr-16 22:46:44

When you say she was "received at the age of 2.1 into the Catholic Church", did that take any particular form, liturgically speaking? I think that may be relevant.

PanelChair Fri 22-Apr-16 07:54:07

It looks as if they have treated the date of your child's reception into the Carholic church as the effective date of baptism. I agree with Meditrina that it is certainly worth arguing that early C of E baptism + reception into the Catholic church = early Catholic baptism. As you say, this may put you into a higher oversubscription category and thus higher on the waiting list.

admission Fri 22-Apr-16 17:41:39

You should look on the internet site of the appropriate catholic diocese as different diocese tend to have slightly different views on how and whether a child is baptised or not. In effect you need to know whether the diocese would accept a CoE baptism as being equivalent or not.
My reading of the admission criteria is that you should not have been considered in cat4 anyway, as the baptism was CoE, not catholic. The only reasons you could have been put in cat 4 is if the school did not accept the CoE baptism but accepted being received as equivalent to being baptised in the catholic church, in which case cat 4 is correct.You cannot in my opinion be in cat 3 unless they accept the CoE baptism, which they have not done so far.

PanelChair Fri 22-Apr-16 17:55:27

Yes, that is what I was trying to convey. It looks as if the child has been put in category 4 on the strength of C of E baptism plus reception into the Catholic Church, but all of this needs to be checked and double-checked.

ImmaculateInception Fri 22-Apr-16 19:57:44

Thank you so much for the sage advice. I've submitted the appeal letter and will keep this thread posted.
I discussed with my parish priest about the Anglican baptism, he said that the Catholic Church accepts it as a sacrament. So, cross fingers!

Stillunexpected Fri 22-Apr-16 21:47:07

I noticed that you missed out (it seemed) the asterisk against the word baptised in admissions Category 4 so I checked the school website and it is the same there. Although it seems slightly bizarre, could it be that in Category 2 and 3 they are referring specifically to Catholic baptism as per the note against the asterisk but in Category 4 they are prepared to accept baptism into another religion? Which might explain why you have ended up in that Category rather than higher?

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Fri 22-Apr-16 22:05:55

I think what they might have done is treated the reception as 'baptism', which is why it's after 12 months and sort of ignored the actual baptism altogether, other than as part of the process of initiation.

The problem is that school admissions tend to use a different definition of baptism than is used in Canon Law. They are perfectly entitled to do this, although it isn't always clear that they are doing this. Particularly if they are quoting Canon Law as part of the admissions criteria.

I'm not sure how successful you'd be at arguing that in an appeal though.

Arkwright Fri 22-Apr-16 23:35:36

I think you were put into the right category. This is from my school website:

A "Baptised Catholic” is one who:
Has been baptised into full communion (Cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, 837) with the Catholic Church by the Rites of Baptism of one of the various ritual Churches in communion with the See of Rome (i.e. Latin Rite, Byzantine Rite, Coptic, Syriac, etc, Cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1203). Written evidence* of this baptism can be obtained by recourse to the Baptismal Registers of the church in which the baptism took place (Cf. Code of Canon Law, 877 & 878).
Or

Has been validly baptised in a separated ecclesial community and subsequently received into full communion with the Catholic Church by the Right of Reception of Baptised Christians into the Full Communion of the Catholic Church. Written evidence of their baptism and reception into full communion with the Catholic Church can be obtained by recourse to the Register of Receptions, or in some cases, a sub-section of the Baptismal Registers of the church in which the Rite of Reception took place (Cf. Rite of Christian Initiation, 399).
Written Evidence of Baptism
The Governing bodies of Catholic schools will require written evidence in the form of a Certificate of Baptism or Certificate of Reception before applications for school places can be considered for categories of “Baptised Catholics”. A Certificate of Baptism or Reception is to include: the full name, date of birth, date of Baptism or Reception, and parent(s) name(s). The certificate must also show that it is copied from the records kept by the place of Baptism or Reception.

Those who would have difficulty obtaining written evidence of Catholic Baptism/Reception for a good reason, may still be considered as Baptised Catholics but only after they have been referred to their parish priest who, after consulting the Vicar General, will decide how the question of Baptism/Reception is to be resolved and how written evidence is to be produced in accordance with the law of the Church.

Those who would be considered to have good reason for not obtaining written evidence would include those who cannot contact the place of Baptism/Reception due to persecution or fear, the destruction of the church and the original records, or where Baptism/Reception was administered validly but not in the Parish church where records are kept.

Governors may request extra supporting evidence when the written documents that are produced do not clarify the fact that a person was baptised or received into the Catholic Church, (i.e. where the name and address of the Church is not on the certificate or where the name of the Church does not state whether it is a Catholic Church or not.)

5678whodoweappreciate Wed 16-Nov-16 16:53:08

How did your appeal go? My understanding of this school was it rarely went past criteria 2 except for siblings?

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