How do I find out if admission criteria has been applied correctly?

[GentlyGentlyOhDear]

We didn't get any of our preferred schools, despite our first choice being our nearest school. The school have told me that we were 63 or 64 on the list of places, with 60 being the admitted number.

I rang the admissions team and was told that the distance of the last child admitted was e.g. 0.438 miles away from the school. Yet our distance from the school was given as exactly the same distance (0.438) as that by the LEA when I emailed last year for a list of our nearest schools. How can three or four other people all be ahead of us on the list, as well as those children admitted at that distance, all living exactly the same distance!?

I've also found out that a child ahead of us lives closer to a different school, but is higher on the list than we are, despite the school being our nearest. The admission criteria states that those preferring their nearest school are given priority. Then goes on to state that those living nearest to the school in a straight line are admitted. So, is it those living nearest, or those living nearest for whom the school is their nearest, who get the priority?

I'm wondering how I can find out if the distances and criteria have been applied correctly? Will the LEA give me that information or will they try to cover up?

Many thanks for any advice or experiences!

[t4gnut]

You can ask them what category you were in and check you agree, and get them to confirm the calculated distance used for you, and you can check how the school determines distance (ie to front door of reception)

As to whether person ahead of you lives closer to a different school - that's irrelevant. Its distance to the school selected.

[GentlyGentlyOhDear]

Thanks for the responses.
I rang and queried the distance and apparently the person I spoke to yesterday quoted my distance as the one that was the last child admitted(!). They said that they won't have the information about the last child admitted until September, as there is another reshuffle and second allocation of spaces at the end of the month and then a waiting list is compiled. They can't tell me where I am on the list currently, as there isn't one, apparently. I am going by what the head told me about the last list she saw.
The person on the phone confirmed that nearest school is given as a higher priority. Two schools are next to each other and each have a semi-circle around them of where their admissions come from, iyswim. The other child is in the 'other' semi circle, with no other priorities or siblings.
Can you appeal at any time or does it have to be before the start of the school year? I'm undecided and might wait until September when I know for definite the cut off distances and other children etc. I feel like I only have suspicions and the council aren't forthcoming with information.
It doesn't affect me too much at the minute as I've decided that my daughter will be staying in nursery for an extra term as she is summer born.

[GentlyGentlyOhDear]

Ps distance is measured in a straight line from centre of dwelling to centre of school building.

[GentlyGentlyOhDear]

To add - by saying it doesn't affect me too much at the minute, I mean, I have time to play with, rather than her having to be in school in September.

[GentlyGentlyOhDear]

Ok thanks for the advice. Lots to think about!

[golfball]

I rang the admissions team and was told that the distance of the last child admitted was e.g. 0.438 miles away from the school. Yet our distance from the school was given as exactly the same distance (0.438) as that by the LEA when I emailed last year for a list of our nearest schools. How can three or four other people all be ahead of us on the list, as well as those children admitted at that distance, all living exactly the same distance!?

It's not unusual for children to have the same distance as others. As Tiggy said, the number of decimal places is important, but even so it's perfectly possible for several families to have exactly the same distance. That is why admissions policies are supposed to have details of what they do in the event of a tie-breaker - e.g. random allocation. Do check that in the policy because if they haven't specified what they would do in those circumstances, and you know the distances are identical, I would expect you'd have grounds for appeal.

However, there is plenty of time for 3 people ahead of you to drop out before September, especially if you're in an area where lots go private, so you might be fine anyway.

[TimeOfGlass]

I thought that the admissions teams could give information about the last child offered a space at this stage?

DS1 didn't get into our preferred school last year. I rang the admissions team to ask for more information, and they told me the distance of the last child offered a space, the distance they had for us, and that DS1 had been the third child refused a space at preferred school.

(3rd to be refused is obviously not necessarily the same as 3rd on the waiting list, as it doesn't take into account late applications, people turning down the offered space at preferred school, or people deciding not to join the waiting list. But it gave us an initial idea of where we might stand)

[admission]

The reality is that if you appeal then your appeal will be in June / July and you will get to hear far more about the facts over the distance measurement at the appeal than you will by waiting for some list in September.
Make sure that you are on the waiting list for the school,don't assume you are and get it is writing. Then get the appeal form in. You only need to say you are appealing on the basis that the distance of the last entry is the same as your distance and you query whether you have been disadvantaged. You can then fill in the gaps when you know when the appeal is.
If the admission number is 60, then any appeal is going to be an infant class size appeal, so the only realistic way of winning at appeal is because a mistake was made. With regard to the distance, yes the computer software will easily go down to 4 decimal points but with that comes a need to be absolutely sure what has been measured. They say they are measuring from the seed point on your building to the seedpoint on the school, but have they actually done that is a question that needs to be answered by them at appeal.

[yarpyarp]

Watching this with interest as also weighing up whether to appeal or not

[GentlyGentlyOhDear]

Thanks for the advice.
I am going to put in a written request for the distance of the last child offered a space at this point and the distance they have for us, what category they have us under, and how they measure the distances.
Any idea how I can check whether their distances are correct? Do I use an online map or calculator?
Cheers again.

[prh47bridge]

Any tool you use for checking the distance will be less accurate than the one used by the LA. All you can do is apply a sanity check to see if their distance is in the right region. If an online tool gives a vastly different distance to the one used by the LA it may indicate a mistake. Remember that most online tools measure from the centre of the area covered by the postcode rather than from your house. This can make a significant difference to the result.

[Mamabear12]

I do not think you can ever really know for sure. I just realised that they were not applied correctly for last year in nursery. I was speaking to someone in my daughters class who has a sibling in the school. She told e her daughter got in at last minute and was 7th on the list! I wa surprised as siblings get priority at the school. It is listed as the criteria for nursery. My daughter was number 1 on waiting list w no sibling there! I was very surprised. They other family live a little further then us, so maybe they only looked at distance, which is strange when she has a sibling there! And this year I spoke to someone who lives half the distance I do and said she is third on list. I was surprised and she said bc there were so many siblings this year! So the girl last year in my daughters class criteria wasn't looked at correctly. I'm going to question the mother this morning...mainly out of curiosity. Bc we both got I. Reception to this school at least! Thank goodness as it was a school I was okay for my daughter to go to. Still bummed we didn't get first choice though, as it was a bilingual school. And the fact u can't be sure about admissions makes me wonder...

[t4gnut]

The school gate rumour mill is the worst place in the world to get information on admissions.....

[drspouse]

In our area there is a deadline for waiting list and appeal applications and it's the same date (end of this month). Check you don't have deadlines for these.

[FishWithABicycle]

I've calculated that there would be an area of 7000 square metres where the distance to a school would be rounded to 0.438 miles - it's a narrow band only 1.58 metres wide stretching in a circle of diameter 1400 metres. The same area is equivalent to a square of 83 metres along each side so in a typical suburban area I would expect such an area to contain the front door of around 20-30 houses so it is entirely possible that several of these houses have a child of the same age cohort.

[bojorojo]

Can you appeal for a place in September knowing that you do not want it until January and are delaying for a term? That seems harsh on others who do want the place in September and have been denied. Do the school have to keep places open for all children who want to do this? It could be 1/3 of the cohort!

[Mamabear12]

It was not a rumour mill. Criteria is on website, spoke w office today. And mother of daughter didn't send application late. Didn't make any big deal of course bc this was last year, but just asking out of curiosity. I see the daughters mother every day at achool gate. She would never mistakenly forget to tick sibling box! There is always room for error. But problem is proving that! I'm just giving my feed back that I do not think that whoever does the admissions is always following criteria 100 percent. Maybe not on purpose, mistakes happen. The thing is u don't usually know about them. I only found out this one by accident. In the end the girl got into the school. Thank goodness for that! And we actually benefited from mistake as we were number 1 on the list. I didn't know any of this until way into the school year after randomly talking to the mom about admissions etc.

[bojorojo]

If everyone delays, staffing must be a nightmare for schools and never mind the lack of money coming in! Who would be a headteacher? (Only joking!)