Talk

Advanced search

Overfull class, shrinking to PAN = unfairness to those who have already appealed?

(7 Posts)
GeorgiaP Tue 12-Apr-16 13:51:56

If a school is overfull by 1 pupil (1 more pupil than PAN) and a child leaves, so that the class size then equals the PAN, is a place offered to the child at the top of the waiting list?

I'm guessing not - the child at the top of the waiting list will only be offered a place if the class size shrinks to less than the PAN.

This would seem to make the in-year appeals process prejudiced against the children on the waiting list who have already appealed, because they can't appeal again.

However, anyone making a new application, can now appeal and make a strong claim that the school can cope with going back to having more pupils than the PAN, without prejudicing the existing pupils.

Am I mistaken? Is there something in the process that stops this?

t4gnut Tue 12-Apr-16 15:37:27

Going over PAN does not create a new PAN. The school took the child in exceptional circumstances. A new appeal is done on its own merits.

catkind Tue 12-Apr-16 15:52:42

I don't think it would make a difference in Infants where you basically have to show a mistake has been made to win an appeal.

In junior years, it is more weighing the benefit to the appealing child vs the impact on the school, in which case I think it is possible that sometimes an appeal could be granted when there are 30 in the class that wouldn't have been granted when there were 32. So I think you have a point OP, interested to see what the experts say. If they haven't already X posted!

GeorgiaP Tue 12-Apr-16 16:38:10

Yes, I'm talking about junior, in-year applications/appeals, not infants.

tiggytape Tue 12-Apr-16 17:08:24

If a school is overfull by 1 pupil (1 more pupil than PAN) and a child leaves, so that the class size then equals the PAN, is a place offered to the child at the top of the waiting list?
No. It would require 2 children to leave (taking the class down to PAN-1) for a place to be offered from the list. If a class has more children than their official number, it will be because of something unique to that child's circumstances and won't mean the class has been permanently expanded (in fact excepted children don't even count towards the numbers).

This would seem to make the in-year appeals process prejudiced against the children on the waiting list who have already appealed, because they can't appeal again.
You can appeal more than once if circumstances change so you could seek to do that. And you can appeal once ever single academic year even if circumstances don't change.
In a non infant class sized appeal (i.e. a normal Y3 or above appeal) having 30 or 31 in the class won't make huge amounts of difference to outcome - it will mostly be the parent's own case that sways things unless the school is tiny and they've been struggling with 31 in the class and can prove this.

If a class has 34 pupils, parents would have to come up with a real killer argument to get an appeal through. At 30 or 31 though, the chances will be roughly the same because any class size below 32, where space and resources permit, will be seen as acceptable by most appeal panels if the parents express good reasons.

tiggytape Tue 12-Apr-16 17:10:16

(I mean a class size of 32 would be acceptable to most panels if there was good reason for this and is in fact very common in primary schools. Whereas a class size of 35 would not be acceptable to most panels)

ReallyTired Wed 13-Apr-16 14:36:23

If a school is popular there is always going to be someone who loses out. The fair access protocol is only used when there is no school place for a child in a sensible distance. It is only right that a child with no school place takes priority over a child who already has a school place locally.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now