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Can school do this?

(48 Posts)
lljkk Thu 24-Mar-16 21:54:43

Not my child, can't think I can do anything about it, but think I have read stuff about this type of situation on MN. It's niggling at me.

Friend has a 5yo DS who is very uncooperative in class (yr1). So he only goes part time. Basically I think he goes when school can spare an adult to mind him 1-to-1, or if his mom or an older sibling comes to mind him. So he goes for limited hours every day, which I think is maximum 3 hrs/day.

Don't ask me further questions, I don't know more specifics. Except I have strong impression the lad isn't distressed, shouty, violent or risk to anyone or property. Quite bright, maybe. The mom says she has no problems making him mind at home. She has a lot of other (very well-behaved) children.

Is this completely pants of the school that they can't do anything to provide the 5yo lad with more hours in school? What could they do instead?

cuntycowfacemonkey Thu 24-Mar-16 21:56:24

It's not legal so she should seek further advice

cuntycowfacemonkey Thu 24-Mar-16 21:58:31

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/education/school-education/access-to-education/

Schools are obligated to provide a full time education. Even if the mum is in agreement it's still against the law

lljkk Thu 24-Mar-16 21:59:35

Can you explain how it's not legal, CCFM?
She's not well-educated or got a lot of money to waste. She is cheesed off. I want the school to sort something better for yr2, at least.

weirdsister Thu 24-Mar-16 21:59:39

It's an illegal exclusion.

Floggingmolly Thu 24-Mar-16 21:59:47

So what form does this "uncooperativeness" take?

lljkk Thu 24-Mar-16 22:00:55

oops, xpost! Do you think CAB could help her?

lljkk Thu 24-Mar-16 22:04:38

Sorry, Flogging, I can't say precisely what the lad does; even if I knew I wouldn't say. I dunno, feels like intruding on their privacy, iyswim. I suspect he does things like wanders off to other classrooms, completely ignores instructions and rules about where to be doing what. Fidgets. I have seen him when I helped with an activity & maybe he engages as long as he has the attention of one person to stop him being bored.

Mom mutters that the school is too soft on him (she doesn't mean hitting, btw, she's very laid back but she can verbally tear a strip off when required).

lljkk Thu 24-Mar-16 22:06:46

Should the school muster money to summon up an adult for 1-to-1? What else could they be reasonably asked to do?

Floggingmolly Thu 24-Mar-16 22:07:50

Sorry, no, of course you can't. He does sound like he needs a 1-to-1 though.

NickiFury Thu 24-Mar-16 23:00:33

How can you possibly know it's an illegal exclusion? confused

My ds was at school on a reduced timetable during primary as he has autism amongst other additional needs and simply couldn't cope for the whole day. It's not uncommon. Later I applied to flexi-school him, that was approved, then I went the whole hog and he is now home educated.

Is this child being assessed for additional needs at all OP?

antiqueroadhoe Thu 24-Mar-16 23:04:16

Yes it could be a reduced timetable, which is a perfectly valid intervention, as long as it's not a permanent answer. Some kids can't cope with a full day of school without having a massive melt down or being dangerous to themselves or others, so adjustments need to be made to support them.

lljkk Fri 25-Mar-16 09:04:08

Thank you for replies. I am going to take friend to coffee after Easter & try to find out more.

Do you think CAB could help her if she wants to challenge the school?

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 25-Mar-16 09:23:14

Without knowing details it is hard to say whether the school is breaking any rules.

lljkk Fri 25-Mar-16 10:49:16

thanks Boney, at least I know a bit more what to ask friend about.
She may feel a reduced timetable is best overall.
I presume reduced timetable should mean covering all core teaching that others get, just compressed to fewer hours? So what he misses out on should be relatively... optional? What subjects or topics are optional?
x

antiqueroadhoe Fri 25-Mar-16 10:51:42

Why is it your business?

ClashCityRocker Fri 25-Mar-16 10:54:46

I'm assuming she wants to help her friend and that her friend has expressed dissatisfaction at the current arrangement?

NickiFury Fri 25-Mar-16 11:32:39

Reduced time table for us meant that he was just there when he was there and got involved then, I covered the rest, but we weren't given work by school or anything. To be honest they simply couldn't cope with him and only too happily agreed to a reduced timetable and him out of their hair. Maybe it's different at other schools though?

Ditsy4 Fri 25-Mar-16 11:36:46

School will not have chosen to do this lightly.

There will be more to this than you think. Possibly being violent to other children or that they suspect he has some special needs which takes ages to formally identify these days.
The school will only reduce a child's hours like this if it in the child's best interest eg child isn't coping. Or if the child is violent therefore you would need 1:1 cover and the other children need to be considered. Full time 1:1 cover is like looking for hen's teeth these days. Only a child with a Medical Statement would come into school with one.

lljkk Fri 25-Mar-16 11:37:25

It's not my business. I'll ask Friend if she wants to change the situation & if she does then I now know a bit more about her options and I can make some suggestions. Friend said some things to make me think she's unhappy about it. Friend has been thru some tough personal things, I would like to support her.

DC first started at this school 11 yrs ago & I am only aware of one other child that school handled like this.

lljkk Fri 25-Mar-16 11:39:17

xpost... I hope you're exactly right that this is best for the lad, Ditsy. Anyway, Friend is laid back & may not have questioned school much initially. But now things are dragging on... I just want to be a sounding board for her, if I can.

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 25-Mar-16 12:21:32

lljkk

The school won't be able to do this without your friends consent, but there should also be a reintegration plan in place with dates for adjustments and reviews.

TeenAndTween Fri 25-Mar-16 12:34:53

I think too from what I have read on other threads that this is an illegal exclusion.

If the parents want the child to be in school, then school should be being provided. If the school can't cope with the child then they should be doing the assessments etc. needed to get the extra money to get the required help, not just saying 'keep him at home', which is effectively excluding him.

If they can't keep him 'on task' then is something like ADHD being considered? Loads of distractions in a school environment which aren't there at home. Also, the Mum may have adjusted her parenting to the child unwittingly, such that the triggers aren't there at home.

By just sending him home, the school are avoiding the issue, rather than helping address it.

The SEN board may be better placed to help.

Devilishpyjamas Fri 25-Mar-16 12:37:27

If she needs further advice IPSEA would be a better bet than CAB

cuntycowfacemonkey Fri 25-Mar-16 13:49:12

Reduced timetables are illegal unless very temporary as part of a reintegration programme for a child whose not attended school for a long period of time. Even if parents are on board with it it's still illegal.

It's also complete rubbish that only children with a medical statement get 1:1 full time support.

OP I suggest you repost in SN section as you will get a lot of misinformation here. I agree that IPSEA should be your friends first port of call for advice.

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