# Talk

## Do primary aged children need to learn the number bonds to 20?

(35 Posts)
WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 28-Feb-16 14:55:40

I have 2 DC (years 3 and 1) and neither of them know the number bonds to 20. They could work it out on their fingers but can't do quick recall.

DD2(7) was slightly behind at the last parents evening but DD3(5) is supposedly very good at maths.

Should I be working with them to remember these at home or doesn't it really matter?

mrz Sun 28-Feb-16 14:58:24

It's the expectation for Y1

bloom7 Sun 28-Feb-16 14:58:42

Yes they need to, plus times tables up to 12 by year 4.

LizKeen Sun 28-Feb-16 14:59:08

DD1 is in P3 (NI) and we are encouraged as part of the homework to practice these.

She is now able to do larger sums in her head, and they are learning "bridging" now and I can tell she is using the number bonds in her head a lot.

So yes. I would say they are important.

WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 28-Feb-16 15:07:40

Thank you.

I will get them to practice daily.

DD2 is currently learning times tables but I don't really understand the way the school are doing it. She has come home with 2, 5, 10, 4 and 8 times tables in her homework yet she doesn't have quick recall of any. I would have thought getting her to learn one at a time would be easier than all at the same time.

Thank you.

mrz Sun 28-Feb-16 15:15:49

In Y2 pupils should know 2,5 & 10 X table and to be able to count in 3s

WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 28-Feb-16 15:20:40

I think she is very behind where she should be. She definitely doesn't know any of her times tables and she can just about count in 3s to 30.

bloom7 Sun 28-Feb-16 15:23:56

Practise getting the 2s,5's and 10's a bit quicker then look at the others.

My first post was a bit short, in theory the curriculum states what the school have to teach in each year but some children will take longer than others.

I would look for funny songs on youtube for times tables or a cd. And just keep practising the number bonds, they'll get it.

WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 28-Feb-16 15:31:14

They moved school this year and in their last school they didn't learn any times tables until year 3 so I know they are new to her. Since then she doesn't appear to have made any progress at all.

mrz Sun 28-Feb-16 15:39:45

your times tables with Percy Parker by Sherston Software Limitedink{https://appsto.re/gb/Mq7Lw.i\appsto.re/gb/Mq7Lw]].i}

mrz Sun 28-Feb-16 15:42:08
Wait4nothing Sun 28-Feb-16 15:45:36

For number bonds please make sure bonds to 10 are instant before working on bonds to 20 and quick addition and subtraction to 20 eg 19-4 (which are very useful in maths calculations).
For times tables for your dd I'd first check she can accurately count in 10s, 5s and 2s (in that order) then work on speedier recall while keep practicing counting in and add in counting in 3s (my class count in a given number as they walk in so it doesn't need tons of time given to it - just little and often). If she can count in a number she can work out a multiplication fact by counting up (yes it takes longer but it will build her confidence that she is able to do it). By the end of year four the expectation is all times tables up to x12 by instant recall but atm she won't be tested until year 6 so plenty of time for her to catch up.

IAmAPaleontologist Sun 28-Feb-16 15:47:01

If you have an apple device then 10 minutes times tables is a really good app, it has had a huge impact on ds1 who was very wobbly with his tables.

WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 28-Feb-16 15:57:21

Thank you mrz I will have a look at those links.

Wait4nothing I will do a little practice every day with DD3 on her number bonds to 10 then when she is able to recall them instantly I will move on to number bonds to 20.

I have just checked and DD2 can count fairly confidently in 10s, 5s and 2s. When DD1 was in primary they would keep a child on one times table until they knew them all and then get them to do instant recall of division facts for the same table, is it worth doing that with DD2?

Thank you.

mrz Sun 28-Feb-16 16:05:16

We use this teaching sequence

WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 28-Feb-16 16:20:53

Thank you mrz, that is very helpful.

bigTillyMint Sun 28-Feb-16 16:30:45

Yes. Quick recall is really important for being able to perform more difficult calculations and also for confidence which is a huge part of being able to do Maths.

Mrz's list is good. I would recommend daily 5 - 10mins practice twice a day if possible. If you search on the Internet you will find many practice worksheets for each times table that you can print off so that they can practise twice a day. I would also recommend HitTheButton on the Topmarks website. Once they can do at least 20 for a times table/bonds, I would say that they are ready to move onto the next table, but they need to keep revisiting the tables already learned so they don't forget IYSWIM.

bigTillyMint Sun 28-Feb-16 16:32:27

And yes to the second paragraph of your last post! Being able to count in say 2s is not enough - they need to know both the multiplication and division facts fast!

mrz Sun 28-Feb-16 16:34:25

We have a weekly timed test of instant recall. Children in Y1 aim for 17 correct in 30 seconds

Wizard19 Sun 28-Feb-16 16:38:52

Interesting how the same methods are used over and over to try and teach tables. Taught properly, should be able to learn all tables in 2 weeks.

teacherwith2kids Sun 28-Feb-16 16:45:40

The only other point that I would make (mrz's list already includes it, but it is worth making the point explicitly), that 'number bonds to 10 / 20' doesn't mean just the ones that make 10/20 exactly IYSWIM?

So often I get children (and i work in upper primary) who know that e.g. 16 + 4 = 20, or 20 - 9 = 11 instantly, but have to work out e.g. 5+7 = 12 or 14-8 = 6, because their previous teachers / schools have interpreted 'number bonds to 10/20' as being 'the number bonds that make exactly 10/20', which is not the same by any means!

WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 28-Feb-16 16:46:32

I am aiming for DD2 to be able to recall all of the facts for each times table in one minute before moving on to the next one.

irvine101 Sun 28-Feb-16 16:49:54
teacherwith2kids Sun 28-Feb-16 16:49:57

Our test is 12, out of order, in 30 seconds, for multiplication facts - and then the same for division facts.

mrz Sun 28-Feb-16 16:50:17

For times tables we also expect children to have instant recall of the related division facts. Test in random order so it isn't counting up or simply reciting.

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