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Will all the grammar for SATs be used in Secondary?

(164 Posts)
bicyclebell Thu 25-Feb-16 22:25:23

A question for teachers, both primary and secondary.

I'm appalled at all this obsessive grammar learning children are being made to do in primary for the SATS - under the new curriculum.

Its the labeling I can't stand. I'm sure its useful to learn some grammar - although I didn't in the 80s. And I still went to university to study English.

Its worrying me so much that I'm thinking of taking my children out in Year 6 to home school them and so miss the stress and boredom of that SATS year. I'll keep them learning - but not bother with all the grammar labeling.

Will that cause problems in secondary school do you think?

G1raffe Thu 25-Feb-16 22:26:27

I've wondered this. Would you really homeschool for year 6 instead? That could be awesome fun!

bicyclebell Thu 25-Feb-16 22:38:05

Yes! A teacher friend of mine who is very strict said 'out of all your crazy ideas this is the most responsible one' or something like that ...

I would love to do it. I'd be sad about DS not being with his friends for the last year as they'll all split up and go to different schools (that's what happens round here) for secondary. BUT DS doesn't like school at the best of times. He likes it when they do interesting topics but SATs year will not be his cup of tea at all.

I don't imagine that his results will reflect his ability either as he has special needs needs and is slow and messy in his work. It bothers me that his future GCSE predictions will be measured by these SATs results ...

But now I'm remembering that he might be made to redo them in Year 7 - if he misses the Year 6 SATs- so maybe this plan won't work at all.

Feenie Thu 25-Feb-16 22:43:56

The retakes will start with the current y5. My ds's year sad

G1raffe Thu 25-Feb-16 22:48:38

If he redid them in yr7 at least he'd have had a year of fun rathr than a year of cramming.....

Presumably private schools don't teach to the SATS? So bright students go into secondary without all the grammar gumpf.

TheBalefulGroke Thu 25-Feb-16 22:50:27

I don't think children that haven't sat them have to 're-sit' in Y7. What about the children that come from the independent sector, or abroad? Doesn't it just apply to children that got <100 scores at KS2?

Feenie Thu 25-Feb-16 22:55:42

I don't think children that haven't sat them have to 're-sit' in Y7.

I don't think so either. But I don't know for sure, and I wouldn't put it beyond the realms of possibility at all.

bicyclebell Thu 25-Feb-16 22:56:31

That would make sense TBG.

If they haven't had to cram in all that grammar gumf as Giraffe calls it - they wouldn't stand a chance would they? Or would they make them do refresher lessons at secondary?

The whole thing seems so ludicrous.

What if your child fails in the May of Year 7? I've heard on here - the first retake is January in Year 7 and then May if you've failed that.

If you fail the final retake are you branded as a failure for life?

madamginger Thu 25-Feb-16 23:02:52

The new yr2 SATS also tests grammar, spelling and punctuation shock
We had a meeting at school and were shown a sample paper, it's utterly shit. My 7 year old is basically doing spelling and grammar until May when they are testing them

Feenie Thu 25-Feb-16 23:10:58

The first retake is Dec 2017 - don't know where January came from. Not that it matters really.

bicyclebell Thu 25-Feb-16 23:11:59

I think parents should protest.

I know there's a petition going. But it would be good if we could go on some sort of strike. How could this be done without people having to take time of work?

Feenie Thu 25-Feb-16 23:12:41

Also, they have only released sample retakes in reading and maths, afaik. Not spag.

ChemicalReaction Thu 25-Feb-16 23:30:59

Interesting. We home educate and were thinking about secondary but were worried about sats retakes so if you haven't sat them you don't need to retake that would be great.

TheBalefulGroke Thu 25-Feb-16 23:31:02

Sorry- I said Jan, it probably is Dec!

IHeartKingThistle Thu 25-Feb-16 23:38:58

I don't believe they will need that grammar at secondary for a second, unless they add a SPAG test to the GCSE. I'm an English teacher and I'm pretty horrified by the Year 6 stuff to be honest. It doesn't join up. But hey, maybe there's a master plan I haven't been told about yet wink

G1raffe Fri 26-Feb-16 06:41:35

I like the idea of home educating year 6 although I expect by then my child wouldn't want to leave school as they like it! However the whole of junior school now seems tied to these sats. The fear I'd have I guess is its a whole body of information and education all her peers would have that mine really wouldn't have.

Leslieknope45 Fri 26-Feb-16 06:53:22

My favourite year 11s are ones who have no KS2 SATS due to home schooling- because there is no KS2 data so they can't give me a GCSE target based on what they've done in year 6. Do what you like, they're your child!

ChemicalReaction Fri 26-Feb-16 10:30:44

Big raffle, why would your child not have that knowledge? You can still teachittothem, just in a more relaxed way and at their pace.

Leslie, good to hear! grin

ChemicalReaction Fri 26-Feb-16 10:31:07

Big raffle?!? GIRAFFE!

tiggytape Fri 26-Feb-16 12:06:04

My DS is in Year 10 so in the first year to do the new English GCSE. His cohort have never covered some of the work now included in the Year 6 SATS at any point during secondary school. I am fairly certain most of them wouldn't know half of the specific terminology relating to grammar (and DS is top group English of a large school with 5 English sets so is considered ahead in the subject).

There will be a SPAG element to the new GCSE exam but only in the sense that poor spelling and limited or incorrect punctuation will lead to loss of marks. More marks now depend upon writing accurately but not upon being able to underline the verb form that is in the present perfect for example. If it was something they needed then I'm pretty sure they'd have been bombarded with it.

jollyjapes Fri 26-Feb-16 13:25:15

I would wait and see how your school handles it. I have a DS in Y6 and a DS in Y2 and if it wasn't for MN I would have absolutely no idea anything had changed. Their school is business as normal, DS1 is aware of SATS because they have done a few practise tests but definitely not causing any concern for them at all.

I think a couple of Y2 parents are a little bit wound up, not because the children are bothered but from reading on here.

From MN though I can see there's a huge difference between different schools' approaches.

I agree teaching this extended level of grammar at this age is actually pointless though. They need to get better at the basics and improve their actual writing capabilities rather than simply labelling words and phrases. Writing skills are where alot of secondary DC fall down (according to teacher friends, no experience myself). Writing is much more time consuming to assess though which will be why the big emphasis on questions which can be ticked right or wrong.

Ellle Fri 26-Feb-16 14:03:36

But the sample test for KS1 grammar and punctuation looks okay to me. Not difficult at all, and the knowledge needed has all been covered already at DS's school (he is in Year 2).

For the children in year 6, however, is a very different matter. I feel for them.

MilkRunningOutAgain Fri 26-Feb-16 14:04:55

My DS is in yr 8 and has done no / very little grammar since starting secondary. And the new curriculum grammar is even more detailed than the SPAG test he did. SPAG was his favourite thing, so he is more than miffed that it seems irrelevant now.

bicyclebell Fri 26-Feb-16 23:14:40

My DS loves writing creatively. I want him to learn to spell well and I think some understanding of grammar is important. But I am so worried that all of this will stifle what he is good at and will make school boring for him.

His school is relaxed so maybe Year 6 won't be so bad. I'll wait and see and if it is really awful can always take him out at Christmas time, I suppose.

littlepinkmouseofsugar Sat 27-Feb-16 09:29:30

Not a teacher, but we are taking our child out of school to HE for years 5 and 6, SATS being one of the (many) reasons for doing so.

I'm hoping if we then decide for our child to go to high school, then the SATS won't need to be (re)sat - will be interesting to get a definite answer on that one.

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