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Another incident at school - previous thread linked

(23 Posts)
NameRanger Sat 21-Nov-15 15:06:44

Here's my previous thread; http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2504259-Would-you-complain

The teacher took my concerns seriously, had a meeting with the child's parents and has put in to place a plan so at wet play the child isn't on his own with a child.

There was another incident at school yesterday with my DC being thrown to the floor and a different boy putting both hands around his neck and squeezing tightly. My DC was very scared and worried.

I'm emailing the school about my concerns. Again.

Is it normal for there to have been 6 or 7 violent/agressive incidents so far this school year? This is from 2 or 3 boys in the class. One definitely has a statement, the other 2 have behavioural issues but I'm not sure if they're statemented or not (none of my business!).

Is it safeguarding procedures that the school should have in place to stop these sort of incidents happening? Am I allowed to ask about that or is that confidential?

The school know very well what these boys are like so I feel they're failing to adequately supervise them.

TIA

NameRanger Sat 21-Nov-15 15:07:37

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2504259-Would-you-complain

LIZS Sat 21-Nov-15 15:14:14

You can ask what it bring done to safeguard your child during wet play .

Wolfiefan Sat 21-Nov-15 15:19:33

This is not normal or acceptable. They have a duty to safeguard your child.
Perhaps don't ask about these other children but ask what is being done to keep yours safe. If you are not happy then report to county.

RandomMess Sat 21-Nov-15 15:25:07

I'd be utterly fuming, it is completely unacceptable.

What are the school going to do to protect your child?

Jhm9rhs Sat 21-Nov-15 15:39:03

I can't believe there have been more incidents. It's frankly dangerous. Yes, I'd complain.

NameRanger Sat 21-Nov-15 15:49:32

Thanks all. I'll probably out myself but I actually have 2 DC in this class. Sometimes the aggression is aimed at my DD, sometimes DS and occasionally both are caught up in an incident.

In my letter I've taken out bits about the other children, only keeping a part that suggests the children aren't being adequately supervised.

I've added a bit reminding the school of the safeguarding duty and how they propose to keep my DC safe at school.

I'm all for inclusion but only when everyone's safety and wellbeing is properly managed. Our school doesn't seem to be able to do this...

Thank you all. This sort of thing has happened so regularly over the years that it almost becomes expected and I've lost sight of what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't.

amarmai Sat 21-Nov-15 16:55:24

as a retired teacher i can shed some light on the classroom management difficulties when there are 3 ccs with behavioural problems. 1 is manageable. 2 you can separate , 3 play off each other and take far too much of the teacher's time and attention to the detriment of all the other students. Also a danger that others who wd not have been tempted to join in , will be tempted as they are being short changed. I read in your prev op that there seem to be more ccs with behav diffic- and i wd agree your dcs class has too many.I wd raise not just the safe guarding aspect of this sit but also the learning sit as there is no doubt in my mind that it is not just at wet play time that this behav is occurring. Also not just your dcs being affected- all of them are. Is there another parent who is on board and wd you feel that s/he cd be an asset in dealing with the admin?

NameRanger Sat 21-Nov-15 17:20:59

Thank you for your reply amarmai.

There are other that have

NameRanger Sat 21-Nov-15 17:24:57

Sorry, pressed post too soon.

There are other parents that share my concerns. I know they've written in as they've told me. The teacher even told me that other have written in with the same concerns as mine.

My DD was hysterical the other evening as she's so worried that she'll be beaten up by these boys.

My DC say that it is hard to work in their class when it's all kicking off and the boys are messing about.

Can't write much more, ads keep popping up from the banner below and making me lose my posts.

amarmai Sat 21-Nov-15 22:54:01

is there another possible class or failing that another possible school? Make sure you document all the incidents and also the info re classroom behaviour. It's all part of the same problem i.e. too many behavioural problem students in the same class. The teacher shd not be blamed as any teacher will tell you 3 is the magic number for destroying a learning environment.

NameRanger Sun 22-Nov-15 09:17:22

amarmai Unfortunately the other class is almost as bad as our one. We are very unlucky with our year. I have another DC at the school and they've never experienced anything like this.

I don't want to remove them from the school just yet but will have no choice of this behaviour is allowed to continue.

I'm keeping a diary of everything and have already told the school I'm doing this.

I don't blame the teacher at all, he's a brilliant teacher and has a very good reputation at the school.

There's more then 3 children in the class who have official/unofficial behavioural needs. There's actually 5 boys in the class that have behavioural problems.

Thanks.

amarmai Sun 22-Nov-15 16:39:36

5 is beyond help unless a 2nd person is placed in the classroom. Can you ask for that?

annandale Sun 22-Nov-15 16:42:55

TBH I would consider removing the children now until there has been a period of say a month without incidents. I think the one positive in this is that you know these incidents have occurred - did the school tell you? That woudl say something major for them if so. But it does sound as if they are not managing this situation, or else that the situation is not manageable.

NameRanger Sun 22-Nov-15 17:24:12

They have a TA there in the morning but not always in the afternoon.

annandale The school didn't tell me about the locking in the classroom incident- the class teacher didn't know until I reported it.

My DS didn't report the strangling incident as the boy then attacked a separate child and the midday supervisor, so he didn't get a chance.

They were then practising their nativity so were with the music teacher, not his class teacher.

Most stuff is only because the DC have told me.

Before the summer holidays, so last school year, the DC were regularly 'evacuated' to the library as one of the boys was 'raging' as the DC put it and it wasn't safe for them to be on the classroom. No one bothered to tell us about that.

Again, no one told us that our DC were being called fucking bitches etc at school. I would have liked to have been warned that my DC were hearing this kind of language so I could speak to the DC that it's not appropriate to call your younger sibling these kind of things in front of your elderly grandparents...

NameRanger Sun 22-Nov-15 17:31:27

Do you think I should involve the governors now? The head knows about the locking on the classroom incident and I've cc'd him into previous complaints.

Millymollymama Sun 22-Nov-15 20:06:29

If a child has attacked a midday supervisor the child should be excluded for a short period. The school will be getting some extra money for statemented children and should be staffing adequately to make sure the other children are safe. My honest opinion: what on earth can the school realistically do with 5 boys like this in the class within their budget? They clearly need a full time TA to supervise them and, from what you say, the other class may need one too. So that is about £40,000 for the year. The school will find that very difficult. How likely do you think it is that these children will improve? How long are you prepared to wait for improvement to happen? Swearing in young children comes from home, so will that improve? Honestly: try and get into another school.

You must complain to the Head before the Governors. Also, classroom management is ultimately down to the Head, not the Governors. If the responses from the Head are unsatisfactory, then you could ask the Governors what arrangements they have in place to keep children safe. Also, what are their staffing arrangements for dealing with the children in this class so everyone can learn. (Apologies if you have already seen the Head).

If you read about safeguarding, you will see that it is not safeguarding when it is an issue arising from children of the same age who are very young. What investigations/sanctions could the police/social services/ possibly consider? This is behaviour management and you may well find the school is working very hard to get help for the boys concerned. They may even need an alternative educational setting. This will not happen quickly so you need to decide if you can wait for a solution. My experience tells me you could be waiting a long time.

annandale Sun 22-Nov-15 21:12:37

According to this page from the CAB you could write to the school and say you are not confident they are safe at school. You could also report the incident to the police. I can't really imagine that I would have done this - ds did once have bullying which could have injured him badly sad (but didn't) and all we did was go to the teacher and talk to the head teacher, but I was confident that the school could and would deal with it, and saw changes immediately.

It sounds as if there needs to be a new approach to this group but I'm not in any way experienced enough to know what that could be. I don't see how you could be confident that your child will be safe, at the moment.

amarmai Sun 22-Nov-15 21:31:50

follow the process op if you do not want to move schools.

NameRanger Sun 22-Nov-15 21:32:15

Milly The child was sent home that day. Don't know if he'll be in tomorrow. Two may improve but I highly doubt the other three will (not fair of me to put on here why I think that).

I haven't actually ever seen the head but have emailed him before. He actually cc'd the head gov in an email last year as an incident was so serious.

I wouldn't involve the police at under 10 yrs old. Can't say much about SS without potentially identifying the children involved.

annandale Thank you for that link. I'm drafting an email to the head and have put in it that I'm not confident that they're safe at school. I wouldn't involve the police under 10 yrs old. I have not idea what can be done either. I'm beginning to think that the situation is unmanageable to be honest...

NameRanger Tue 24-Nov-15 18:09:05

DS was pushed over again today by one of the boys. They were playing at lunchtime and the other boy got rough so don't know if it's just ones of those things to be expected?

DD was pushed (not to the ground) and called a bitch by one of the other boys today, just because she was at the front of the lunchtime queue.

Just out of interest, are the school supposed to be able to guarantee your child's safety whilst they're at school?

Thanks.

amarmai Wed 25-Nov-15 14:46:38

not sure if guarantee wd hold up-maybe consult a lawyer. So sorry for what is happening to your cc. My eldest son was targeted by a horrible bully when he began school and that bully boy grew up to be a bully man. Keep on documenting and do not stop informing the school of every incident. I hope an alternative placement in a safer sit is offered.

NameRanger Wed 25-Nov-15 21:30:19

Thanks amarmai. I'm documenting everything - filled an a4 page just for this week so far. Some of the incidents seem trivial on their own but when it's all day everyday, it adds up. Thanks again.

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