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Permanent Exclusion at Six years of age.

(202 Posts)
HoundoftheBaskervilles Tue 30-Jun-15 20:58:10

I don't want to be writing this, I can't believe I've got here, but i need the help of the women on this board.

My daughter is six years old, I have her and a DS (who is the World's most, gentle and biddable child), DD is different, has been volatile from starting school (she was fine at pre-school).

From the age of four DD has been angry, (she's the youngest in the year, August born, and whilst I think this is contributory I don't think it's causal), she started school early and I think I may have made a mistake at putting her on the school bus as a young four year old, but, we live rurally and DH works away & I (despite repeated efforts, have yet to pass my driving test - it was expedient at the time) The first school she went to, she wigged out on the school bus, attacked other children, it wasn't great. I'm trying to precis here, but the school handled it badly, they kept putting her in isolation at the age of four and we had many meetings, I kept trying to tell them, many of her feelings are relating to rejection - she's always been insecure (for no reason - she's had a happy life - but she feels, and always has, rejection very seriously).

So we changed schools, we went to a school recommended by our peers, and it's been brilliant, so supportive, we accessed CAHMS, She had one to one support (which was ended at Easter on the behest of the LEA).

But last week, it all went wrong, she's been great at school for nine months, brilliant, not a problem, last thursday she started to go a little off the wall. Tried to abscond, it was handled ok, tried to abscond the next day, I was called in, when I got there, she'd been physically restrained for 30 mins, the two teachers who were involved in the restraint were looking resigned, but not upset. She was released and immediately went for the teacher that had restrained her, kicked her & pulled her hair, the teacher stormed off with the epitaph 'I've had it with this school',

I managed to calm her down and she wanted to apologise, we went to the office, but the teacher concerned was still crying, when she saw this DD grinned, it was a nervous grin, but it was still a grin, the secretary chased her out with a 'I don't think that's very nice DD', I just excited the area, I had to get away, I knew apologies were futile by this point.

She was excluded for three days, I had the letter yesterday, it hurt, but I understood, I went in today to what I thought was a reintegration interview, I was met by the Vicar who serves on the board of govs and was given a letter of permanent exclusion.

I've been blindsided, I'm so upset, I had 30 seconds to formulate an appropriate response. She's six, I feel she's been excluded from education forever.


Fuck - I'm so upset - I need some help here.

tyto Tue 30-Jun-15 21:04:20

Gosh thst all sounds a mess. Phone IPSEA and SOSSEN tomorrow. They can advise you. flowers

CherylBerylMeryl Tue 30-Jun-15 21:07:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HoundoftheBaskervilles Tue 30-Jun-15 21:07:24

Who are the people?

HoundoftheBaskervilles Tue 30-Jun-15 21:08:45

Cheryl - it was deemed that all was well, and it was for a bit.

pieceofpurplesky Tue 30-Jun-15 21:09:24

The school are not breaking any rules by excluding your dd a sit sounds like a church school and sadly they have a duty to protect teachers from attack.
It is really sad and I feel for you op as your dd is only six and it must feel
Like it is all over. It is not. The LEA have a responsibility to find her a
School and you need to get back in touch with camhs as soon as you can.
Your dd needs to be at a school where she can have 1:1 tuition until her underlying anger issues can be resolved.
So first thing - doctors for referral to ed psych/camhs
Then Lea about new school place

You yay make sure you show a lot of love to your daughter to make her feel safe. You use the word rejection - who has she been rejected by!

Carrie5608 Tue 30-Jun-15 21:09:33

I am so sorry you are going through this. Have a look here. link

HoundoftheBaskervilles Tue 30-Jun-15 21:09:55

I feel like my six year old has been written off - she's done - not worthy.

CherylBerylMeryl Tue 30-Jun-15 21:12:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tyto Tue 30-Jun-15 21:13:18

I would also be questioning why the LEA has ended CAMHS support. They are different organisations surely? CAMHS are NHS. Were the LEA funding it?

CharlesRyder Tue 30-Jun-15 21:14:42

So this is the only serious incident in this school and they've PXed? I'm not sure that will be upheld.

However, it sounds like you DD may need a more permanent arrangement of additional support and sadly, in some areas, a PX is the only way to really access this so you may be able to use it in your favour.

The LEA have to provide your DD with an education so she will NOT be out of school forever. You need to think fast now about what your DD needs. Did additional adult support help her? If so you need an EHCP which puts this into place for her.

Don't despair- now is the time to be pro-active and fight for what your DD needs. Phone the Head and ask them what the arrangements for DD will be after Day 5 (the point at which education must be provided).

flowers I'm sorry it is still such a hard process to access support. sad

sliceofsoup Tue 30-Jun-15 21:15:28

I feel like my six year old has been written off - she's done - not worthy.

I have no constructive advice about the next steps. But your attitude towards this is what is going to shape her attitude towards it. She hasn't been written off. She has been excluded from one school because she had to be physically restrained for half an hour, and then attacked a teacher. She is 6 years old, she has many years of education ahead of her. She just needs the correct help and support.

Of course it is devastating, and worrying, but it is no where near the end of the road and I am not sure how helpful that attitude is going to be.

kgov1 Tue 30-Jun-15 21:15:59

I don't know much about exclusions but would check the school's behaviour policy if you haven't already to see what their procedure is and if they have followed this.

Your DD's behaviour was unacceptable but you know this. If there haven't been any issues for the last 9 months, I'm surprised that they have permanently excluded her on the basis of this incident.

The teachers reaction might suggest she is fed up of the school not dealing with the matter or there might be other things going and on and your DD's behaviour was the final straw. Did they say why they had chosen to exclude her with no warning?

There must be a right to appeal so if I was you, I would consider getting some legal advice if this is something you would want to appeal.

Is your DD upset by this or not bothered?

I feel for you. I don't think this would happen at the school my children attend as there are children who misbehave on a daily basis who are still there.

Debs75 Tue 30-Jun-15 21:19:55

op your dd's exclusion has come as a result of the schools inability to cope with her. They have got to the point where they feel they can not keep her or them or other pupils safe so they are letting your dd go. It stinks it really does but she hasn't been written off.
Do you think your dd has any behavioural or mental difficulties? You mention CAMHS, do you think they have helped?
I would take her to the GP and ask for a referral to ed psych and maybe even a paediatric consultant who could look into possible SEN.

Keep loving her and being there for her. It will be hard but you will find a better more suitable school for her soon.

HoundoftheBaskervilles Tue 30-Jun-15 21:21:03

Yes, DD is distraught, the thought of not seeing her friends caused her face to crumple like nothing I've seen before.

tyto Tue 30-Jun-15 21:21:21

Can any teachers who are trained in restraint comment on the situation of the child being restrained by 2 teachers for 30 mins? Is it usual or not to restrain a child for that period of time? It seems excessive to me but I am not trained in restraint so wouldn't know.

HoundoftheBaskervilles Tue 30-Jun-15 21:25:38

I think, I have a vague feeling, something happened

Noeuf Tue 30-Jun-15 21:27:07

Op what do you want for your dd? The board of governors should meet within 15 days and you can attend to put your views across. (Who decided to PEX? It should be the Head). The governor's can reinstate or uphold and if they uphold you can request an independent review. However, is this the right place for her? The LA must provide an education from day six, so expect contact from them. Talk it through tomorrow - try ipsea or forms children's legal centre . Google - can't link, sorry! I've assumed you are in England btw

Noeuf Tue 30-Jun-15 21:29:13
Follow the link to schools and education and exclusions.

tyto Tue 30-Jun-15 21:34:49

OP I'm sorry if my last post sounded a bit odd - I don't think I worded it very well. I was just wondering whether your dd attacking the teacher could have been because she misinterpreted the restraint as the teacher hurting her, as 30 mins seems like a long time to me. (But I have no training in restraint so wouldn't know)

CharlesRyder Tue 30-Jun-15 21:38:31

tyto it is very unusual and far from ideal for it to be that long.

I imagine the issue was that OP's DD was trying to leave the school site and when prevented became violent towards staff. If they had released her she would have either attacked them or absconded again so they had a three way choice between allowing her to abscond and calling the police (unsafe for her especially if school is near main roads), letting her attack them (unsafe for them, and yes a 6yo can do quite a bit of damage, also not good for her self esteem) or holding her. At least when she is being held by well trained staff she is safe.

Not ideal but these are the choices you face.

bobajob Tue 30-Jun-15 21:39:28

tyto - obviously you'd try to restrain for the minimum time possible, while keeping everyone safe. It's difficult to say without knowing the circumstances. Ideally you'd probably try to swap adults by that point.

mrz Tue 30-Jun-15 21:43:28

CAMHS isn't controlled by the LEA so they can't stop the support the decision to end involvement would be made by CAMHS.
As people have said if your child is permanently excluded the LEA must provide full time education from the 6th day.
I know you are upset but sometimes it takes something like this to access the support your child needs more quickly

CharlesRyder Tue 30-Jun-15 21:43:36

Clearly the should have switched adults as one of them was not coping by the time OP arrived but maybe they only have two restraint trained staff. It's not the sort of scenario mainstream schools are equipped for materially or mentally.

AdoraBell Tue 30-Jun-15 21:51:18

OP you say you have a vague feeling that "something happened" is that something happened to DD when she was younger that could have caused her anger?

Obviously I'm not asking you to disclose on here but has she had support outside of school? Is it something that CAHMS and the school are aware of?

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