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Year 5 in sept and can hardly read or write,how would he manage?

(56 Posts)
stripeycat13 Thu 11-Jun-15 17:22:27

I have a boy age 8,9 in August.He has had a tough time since starting school as no one helped him in his first years at school and I had no idea what I was dealing with.All I knew is he was a happy nature loving boy one minuit and an angry unhappy child the next.I took him out after 18months as no one was doing anything,he was 2 yrs behind and getting bullied.When I say unhappy he was saying I want to go back up to the stars mummy.So I tried an alternative school as I knew he was in a bad way emotionally,this helped but still no support academically.So after a year we home educated for the last 2 year but after a year he refued again to read or write, I now have him a tutor but he is desperate to go to school and be part of it all again. His anxiety has reduced and he just needs learning support.I worry he wont cope in year 5 as it gets high pressured I hear so I am full of anxiety myself now as to what to do.Any suggestions.He has siblings starting school soon so he is reallhy feeling alone.How do I make it right for my boy?

AuntieStella Thu 11-Jun-15 17:29:47

Have you got a school place lined up? Because your really need to go and talk to form teacher/SMT/anyone with a relevant pastoral role and probably the SENCO too about his school history.

I think you need to mull over what they can offer in support (both pastorally and to cover attainment gaps), ideally before they break up, so you can use the summer to promote the school to DS in terms of what is really likely to happen. And see if there are any activities over the summer that would help. (Eg, do the pupils use a particular holiday club? Could he get to know them there?)

Shannaratiger Thu 11-Jun-15 17:31:50

My Dd has SN and gets lots of additional help, unfortunately u really have to fight for it. I would recommend talking to your LEA and contacting local resources like parent mail, gateway...

Ferguson Thu 11-Jun-15 17:47:06

How many potential schools are within your area that you could consider for him?

Would neither school you have already tried make any effort to meet his needs? Has he been formally diagnosed with identifiable needs? - presumably not, as nothing has been done for him, though with funding so tight I guess many children don't get the help they might previously have received.

Is he making any progress with the tutor, and what is is attitude towards learning like now?

I was a TA and voluntary helper for over twenty years, and always did what I could to support children who found school difficult. Are there TAs or additional workers in the schools you are considering?

Besides academic subjects, what activities or sports does he like and is able to take part in?

Do you know what particular aspects of reading and writing he finds most difficult? Presumably his vision and hearing will have been checked?

I'll see if I can suggest anything, if you answer my queries.

stripeycat13 Thu 11-Jun-15 23:06:39

Ferguson thankyou and auntiestella and shannaratiger.Ferguson he is making progress and is reading but has a slow processing speed though a bright boy he gets frustrated. He has to sound everything out still and misses double letter sounds even though he has been taught them over and over. He is starting to get it though if he gets really upset about his sensory issues or the reading itself I have to leave it as its not worth him feeling forced. He has been seen by the educational psych who identified the poor working memory and visual and auditory processing probs. H is having Irlens test later this month. His attitude is better for learning and with the right encouragement he will be ok. I trialed him at a school last yr but we were looking for a yr 3/4 and they suddenly changed it around at the last min to 4/5 and I had already worried he would struggle in the 3/4 so we pulled out. I kind of regret this now as it was a lovely school.He was bullied terribly when small, and he has sensory issues so the whole place needs to feel right. This one did and is the only place that seemed sympathetic.It seems such a long road to getting help in mainstream I worry there will be a fare bit of suffering until this came through and then he prob wuld be refusing to go by then. He says he hates home ed now though as he is craving the busy social life he once had. Even though we see people everyday to do something it doesn't seem enough. He is totally dep on me to deliver learning he doesn't seem to find things out or do things on his own which makes it hard.There is also a steiner school option but not entirely sure if enough support available but is certainly more kinaesthetic which may appeal to him.

Millymollymama Fri 12-Jun-15 09:20:16

I feel sorry for your child because you seem to change tack very readily. With a good teacher, there is no reason why the proposed arrangement at the latest school could not have worked. Was this the 3rd school? Home ed appears to have been a failure and now his needs are more complex. I would start, urgently, seeing what school has a place. None will be keen because he will mess up their progress profiles and SATs results. You will need to persevere but you will also need to adopt a more robust attitude or secondary education will bring more problems for you both.

OnionsAndApples Fri 12-Jun-15 09:25:37

Would it be worth talking to the local AIO? They might have an idea of what school can offer the right support .

stripeycat13 Fri 12-Jun-15 11:20:55

Millymollymama it is not a question of me not persevering its a question of the teachers at his first school not having a clue about his special need and letting him get 2 years behind and be bullied in the playground and the classroom to do with his learning difficulties. The school was renouned for it. They caused lasting damage by the time I took him out he had severe anxiety and school refusal, he would have hour long meltdowns when asked to read and multiple distressing anxiety issues. Before school he was a happy 4 yr old.I knew he wouldn't have coped in a mainstream school in this state so tried him in a more gentle alternative one not realising at the time he needed more support than they quite frankly could be bothered to give. They wrote him off saying he would NEVER catch up, they had given him no support at this stage and I knew he could have taken off there but the middle teacher had such a bad attitude about him and many other SEN children. We were frosted out because we didnt fit the right critteria for being there,ie starigh tforward learners.I have been desperately searching for the right place for him since. I don't care about SATS results and neither should the right school. They should surely be in the business of helping children have an education and supporting their needs to do so. Not number crunching and ticking boxes to look good on paper.There is much of this crazy system which resembles a factory/business like model rather than inclusion and emotional health which matters more than anything in the end. By home ed I have helped my childs anxiety no end and his self esteem, which was rock bottom when I took him out of mainstream. Its now high. He is learning in many broader ways and has actual learning difficulties to do with reading writing which thanks to his first school causing his emotional probs, is the reason he has been so behind. I have been broken about this and tried everything I can to help my child so please Only positive helpful comments.

Ferguson Fri 12-Jun-15 19:33:31

Is it too late now to change your mind and take the Yr4/5 option, if the school seemed appropriate in other ways? I hope the Irlens assessment helps a bit, though, as I guess you realise, it may not solve everything.

I often reply regarding younger children with Phonics, reading or writing difficulties. There is a Phonics Dictionary, which I think puts a lot of reading and spelling difficulties into an easy to use book suitable for children of all ages, though it is aimed at younger children.

There is a review of it in the MN book reviews section, so if you search Phonics and my name you should find it. It could go some way towards helping him improve his reading.

Regarding his writing, when I had boys who were VERY reluctant to write, I used to let them DICTATE their ideas to me, and I would type them on the computer. This relieves the child of the chore of handwriting, and encourages their ideas to flow more easily.

So if you have a tape recorder, or a phone he can use to record on, see if he can dictate a story, or a recount of some outing or special event. He can then listen back to it, make alterations if necessary, and at some other time, try to hand write it or type it. The important part is the ideas, descriptions etc, so even if you have to type it for him, it may encourage to do more in future.

I'll come back sometime to see the outcome of the Irlens tests.

stripeycat13 Fri 12-Jun-15 20:40:07

Ferguson thankyou for your thoughts and ideas its much appreciated. The funny thing is its schools that have caused all this but I get the judgement from people(above). And he has an SEN, he does not retain information easily due to poor short term working memory.The first yr of HE really helped him he learned more than ever and was realing off times tables and ploughing forwards with all his sounds learning lots about science, maths, swimming. They learn in broader ways through HE.The main thing is emotionally he was healing getting his confidence back.But as for the future I want him in school if he can as socially this will be best for him I feel he needs the structure too.By contrast my little girl loves HE and is now benefitting from a later start she has taught herself to read and write and retains everything like a sponge!. I will try what you suggest, re writing, and im hoping a few further tests shed light.

bronya Sat 13-Jun-15 12:06:39

Children with slow processing speeds and poor working memory are poorly served in a class setting. The teacher has to go at an appropriate speed for the other 29 children so your one is continually left behind and learns very little. By GCSE they can still be almost unable to read and write, or to do much maths at all. Self esteem and social relationships can be affected also.

A friend of mine is HE her daughter as the school have admitted that even if they put everything in place to help her, she still will not even get DS at GCSE. At home, learning at her pace and in the right style for her, she is catching up fast.
Is your tutor experienced with SEN? What is their opinion?

stripeycat13 Sat 13-Jun-15 14:36:11

Bronya yes I did find this at school, he did afterall do 2.5 yrs at school and learned nothing, he had 15 mins extra a day help and it did barely any good.When he came out he couldn't even read basic sounds or the basic key words. But he knows loads about nature!.I just want the social interaction of school. I know children like this will catch up eventually and have strengths in other areas,it just needs the right school to help them realise it and give confidence and self esteem.The tutor hasn't worked with him that long but I think already can see he doesn't retain much.I feel like I have tried everything I canto help him and am still doing better than the schools but nowhere near what I really wanted for him.

mrz Sat 13-Jun-15 21:42:46

I'm afraid a child who is unable to read and write is going to struggle to access the curriculum as they progress through school.

Millymollymama Sat 13-Jun-15 21:59:05

I am very sorry you find my comments unhelpful, but you will find every school cares about progress and SATs results. If you try and find one that thinks otherwise you will surely fail. I am sorry you seem to rail against anyone (people!!) who disagrees with you.

There are many schools that will do their absolute best with SEN children, but your experiences appear to stop you trusting anyone. I think you will find fault in anything that is offered. It is very unusual for children to get so far behind at school and it is all due to faulty teaching. I have no solution for you, but being more open minded and less fearful might now help. There are plenty of schools who have children 2 years behind (and more) and if you ever find a school that meets your criteria and is not a factory, then perhaps you should negotiate how he can successfully integrate.

Millymollymama Sat 13-Jun-15 22:01:55

Has he seen an educational psychologist? What do professional educationalists think would help?

momtothree Sat 13-Jun-15 22:43:31

As a parent you should be welcome in school at any time, and I wonder if you and DS could visit and spend time in a class to see what really goes on? How they teach for each ability what expectations the teachers have and how well they know the children? Get him a place now so September isnt a huge step. You sound fearful and i wonder if your kids pick it up? I dont doubt his needs but think you may need a bit of hand holding.

Millymollymama Sat 13-Jun-15 23:22:06

The practicalities of finding a place might be complex. The catchment school is obliged to have DC if they have a place. If they do not, they are not obliged to offer a non existent place. Similarly other schools might not offer a place if they are full. Going into year 5 will depend upon what school actually has a place. The OP can look at a variety of schools, but actually getting a place in one might be problematic. If you add in the difficulty of it not being a "factory" school, the difficulties might be huge.

stripeycat13 Sun 14-Jun-15 00:28:29

Millymollymama I don't think I have railroaded anyone!, you come through with a bit of an attitude to start with when presented with a question about a child who has obviously been through a lot because of a SEN and bullying you appeared to be saying you feel sorry for my child because of my lack of persirverance and changing tack regularly. These are pure assumptions as you know nothing of how personally difficult this situation has been all along. The changing tack was because of schools failure to keep him safe and meet his needs and yet you appear to blame me and basically say that no school would really want to know us because it will affect their sats results. You are very to the point and don't appear to have much understanding of SEN or the issues involved.Maybe looking from a schools perspective?. Some schools believe it or not do care about the child and are prepared to take on SEN children without excluding them like i hear of many doing. I have come across schools that say they are inclusive and arent interested in helping one bit.Yes because of ticking boxes my child would be basically excluded.I resent this in a state school. Yes you are right i dont have much trust after what my family has had to go through.Yes my child has seen an educational psychologist which is why I know what his problems are to do with working memory and processing problems.He is a very bright child its a shame we don't have a system that recognises it!.

momtothree Sun 14-Jun-15 09:49:36

Hi, ive just been on the gov web site and it states you can ask a school to teach part time. Most schools do lit maths ect in the morning with art pe in the afternoons. Would this be a short term option?

DoItTooJulia Sun 14-Jun-15 09:57:17

I'm afraid I don't know enough to help, except to suggest you try flexi-schooling? Where ds can go part time? I don't think many schools do it, but it's goto be worth a shot?
Best of luck with it all. smile

DoItTooJulia Sun 14-Jun-15 09:57:58

Oh, x post with mom smile

mrz Sun 14-Jun-15 11:01:14

OP did the Ed Psych suggest that your child required a statement? Support?

CharlesRyder Sun 14-Jun-15 11:17:13

You could apply for Statutory Assessment. If your DS is deemed to need an EHCP he would receive additional support in mainstream or might be entitled to Resourced provision/ SS.

stripeycat13 Mon 15-Jun-15 00:31:18

Thanks yes possibly im not sure what the level of need has to be before you can get a statement or EHCP?, or if I can get this set up before he goes into school?. Flexi schooling maybe a good option but don't think any in my immediate area do it. Cant seem to get any of that answered and it seems a bit wooly, i don't want to put him in somewhere he will immediately fail as little support.

mrz Mon 15-Jun-15 06:36:34

Sorry to be blunt stripeycat but he is already "failing" it's going to be a huge ask, even with full time support (which he's unlikely to get) for a child unable to read and write to meet expectations by the end of the key stage.
You really do need to take action so that his difficulties are identified and acted upon without delay.

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