# Talk

## How to progress very eager child starting yr1.

(27 Posts)
Wizard19 Mon 25-Aug-14 09:50:49

Dd 5 starting yr1. Can count 100+, reading fluently phonetically. Was challenged in foundation did phonics with yr1. Knows number bonds to 10 etc. Can do column addition with carrying. Knows doubles to 20 +. Can work out double 34 if asked randomly. Knows 1,2,5,10 times tables. Can tell the time to 5 minutes. Knows about 2d and 3d shapes, which have been made with toothpicks and Plasticine and adorn any free space.

Teachers out there, what advice as to progress, as from what I have read, this is bordering on early yr2 work. And honestly some of this, I don't even know how. One day she just said to me daddy I now know how the clock works, and I was all ears as she gave me a thorough explanation.

mrz Mon 25-Aug-14 11:37:52

Sorry definitely not bordering on Y2 work

In Y1 children need to be able to count & write numerals beyond 100
Know number bonds to 20 and related subtraction facts
Add and subtract one /two digit numbers and solve word problems involving addition and subtraction
Solve problems involving multiplication and division

the school probably won't use column addition

She's doing very well and you should be proud of her

mrz Mon 25-Aug-14 12:04:36

Year 1 Key Objectives

1
Count to and across 100, forwards and backwards, beginning with 0 or
1, or from any given number
2
Count, read and write numbers to 100 in numerals
3
Read, write and interpret mathematical statements involving addition (+), subtraction (– ) and equals (=) signs
4
Given a number, identify one more and one less
5
Represent and use number bonds and related subtraction facts within 20
6
Add and subtract one - digit and two - digit numbers to 20, including zero
7
Recognise, find and name a half as one of two equal parts of an object, shape or quantity
8
Recognise, find and name a quarter as one of four equal parts of an object, shape or quantity.
9
Measure and begin to record length/height, weight/mass, capacity/volume & time
10
Recognise and know the value of different denominations of coins and notes
11
Sequence events in chronological order using language
12
Recognise and use language relating to dates, including days of the week, weeks, months and years
13
Tell the time to the hour and half past the hour and draw the hands on a clock face to show these times
14
Recognise and name common 2 - D shapes (e.g. Square, circle, triangle)
15
Recognise and name common 3 - D shapes (e.g. Cubes, cuboids, pyramids & spheres)

nonicknameseemsavailable Mon 25-Aug-14 13:39:22

I would just let her settle into Yr1 to be honest. If the school have challenged her in R then I can't see any reason to assume they won't in Yr1. Now if she had sat around in R and not really done anything then I would think differently but I think just wait and see what happens. Some children are natural mathmaticians but there are going to be a few of them able to do those kind of things on entry to yr1 and some probably able to do more so I am sure the school will be geared up for it.

If you feel she isn't making progress or is becoming disengaged then you will probably have a parents evening at half term so you could raise it then.

DD1 wasn't challenged at the start of Yr1 so I mentioned it in October at parents evening, I said DD was enjoying the work but saying it was all easy so the teacher made a note and said she would come up with some more challenges and sure enough in the next lesson there were harder challenges for the children who were able to do more. Things slipped a bit again mid year and I again mentioned it politely at parents evening and again things stepped up a level. Now DD complains about it being boring because she has to think! precisely - I explained to her they all have to think, that is the whole point of school.

Wizard19 Mon 25-Aug-14 13:53:51

Thanks both for the replies. Will have to wait and see, just worried as reading and writing are easily accommodated, not maths in experience so far. Other dd going to yr3 I feel had a lost yr2 with little progress/challenge.

Mon 25-Aug-14 14:08:53

DD did column addition (2 & 3 digits) with carrying last year in yr1.

She was great with 2 numbers, not so confident with 3. However not sure she is too hot on division though.

DD has had a fab yr1 & was challenged totally (although her strength is literacy/reading) and I am hoping yr2 is as good

mrz Mon 25-Aug-14 15:04:45

Addition and subtraction crossing ten (carrying/borrowing) is usually taught (but not using column method) in Y1 IMHE.

My more able Y1s understood place value for four digit numbers and decimal numbers, could use given facts to work out inverse operations, add crossing ten eg 456+178 = , and subtract crossing ten eg 312-149= , division with a remainder eg 73 divided by 5, find doubles and halves of given numbers etc.

Mon 25-Aug-14 16:29:02

Thinking about it, I think she only did it in addition & not subtraction.

She is not amazingly mathematically minded (although top set/group/table).

She certainly wouldn't have a clue about decimals or division with remainders but can double/halve numbers (only even numbers - although can say that they don't halve exactly as some is left over but not what is left over iyswim with odd numbers.

Tbh there should be a parents eve early on in the school year (my DC school have a target setting parents eve 2 or 3 weeks in) which is a great time to mention your concerns.

Wizard19 Tue 26-Aug-14 03:48:45

Simpson Thanks. Good that your dd is doing well. I will see what targets they have at parents eve.

erin99 Tue 26-Aug-14 11:29:56

DS is going into Y1. He fits with the more able Y1s mrz describes and can do most of mrz's list, although DS tells me that they don't actually do any maths at school! His YR teacher graded him a 1b/1a, which means by definition he's been given appropriate work to demonstrate those skills.

He hasn't been taught column addition, his infant school uses number lines but DS just sort of does it in his head ATM. IMO school is for getting the basic principles taught in the correct way. It's a jumping off point. For example, at school he learned the basics of working with coins - 5p, 10p etc. - with some simple worksheets. In a shop with me, he told me what our drinks came to (£3.72) and what change to expect from a fiver, then he checked the change. He doesn't need to be doing worksheets exactly at the level of £5 minus £3.72 to be engaged, challenged and progressing with his maths at school. School taught the basic building blocks (which are absolutely vital), and then a mathematical child just runs and runs with it. I am mainly just grateful that he enjoys it so much, it's a million times easier to have a child who finds it easy. He does have a steady diet of top trumps, monopoly, and suchlike to feed his obsession

Cheebame Tue 26-Aug-14 12:33:34

If she spent some of reception working with y1 then the school are obviously aware of her ability, Wizard19 - I suppose the key thing is making sure that she is given appropriate work all the time, just as the rest of the class.

DD is also starting y1 and also spent time last year working with y1 but I am confident that the school will challenge her - and that DD will let us/them know one way or another if they don't

Wozald1989 Tue 26-Aug-14 13:06:19

Wow all your children going in to year 1 sound bright!
My lo Is not at this high level especially in maths but all children have different strengths and weaknesses and the teacher knows this and will plan for all abilities
Mine struggles with counting to 30 and wouldn't know any money she can do a plus one on numbers but that's about it, she prefers to play and run around and I think that's fine at 5 years old

diamondage Tue 26-Aug-14 14:03:16

Wizard19 I'm not sure I agree with some posters that the skills you mention are not bordering on year 2 work ...

Telling the time to 5 minute intervals is, even with the recent raising of standards, an end of year 2 target (it used to be year 3/4).

So is knowing the multiplication facts for 2, 5 and 10 times tables - as long as you do mean she knows the facts individually rather than can skip count her way to them, or simply recite a table.

Comparing and ordering numbers beyond 100 isn't an expected outcome until year 3 along with understanding place value of 3 digit numbers - although there is obviously a progression through years 1 - 3 not a sudden jump.

The first time I can find remainders mentioned in the new National Curriculum is in Year 5, although I'm not suggesting that's when children first come across them, I just can't find them mentioned before that.

mrz out of interest had your most able year 1s also learnt to tell the time to 5 minute intervals - were they equally able across all of the strands or particularly able with calculations?

Of course the skills you mention cover only part of the whole maths curriculum, but given that children are rarely equally strong across all of the maths strands there's no reason a child can't be well ahead in some areas whilst average or even behind in others.

I think the real issue here is that if your DD has taught herself to tell the time as you describe, she may be able to do a lot more with the right stimulation. Your concern is that she may not get that at school based on your previous DD's experience of year 2.

If I were you I'd be interested to see for myself how quickly your DD can pick up various maths skills. If you taught her column addition then presumably you do some work with her at home?

You can use the National Curriculum to guide you on which topics to focus on and also to help you ask pertinent questions when you speak to her teacher at parents evening. If she really loves maths then there are lots of free (and paid for) computer resources that will stimulate her if it turns out the school struggle to differentiate (some do, some are great at it).

The new National Curriculum (unlike the old one) is simpler for a parent to understand because expectations are set out by school year. It is therefore quite easy to see in which topics a child is behind, expected or ahead.

Well done to your DD - I think teaching yourself to tell the time at 5 years old is rather impressive myself

mrz Tue 26-Aug-14 15:13:41

Yes diamondage my most able were able to tell the time to the minute and solve word puzzles involving time - my train leaves the station at 12.09 and arrives at it's destination at 1.03 how long was the journeytype questions and were equally able across all strands (borderline level 3)

diamondage Tue 26-Aug-14 15:30:22

Not sure what's borderline about it

I think that supports my view - year 2 work spans levels 1A/2c to 2B/A (or at least it did), therefore your most able pupils were working beyond (even well beyond) year 2 level.

The OP stated that the abilities displayed by their DD were early year 2 work - I can't see how they were wrong about that.

mrz Tue 26-Aug-14 15:40:26

sorry lost MN in mid post and only half post appeared -
as you rightly said there are lots of strands and some children will be ahead in some strands and not in others which is why the OPs child is not bordering on Y2 even though she has great understanding of time - it isn't nearly enough.

Iamnotminterested Tue 26-Aug-14 16:52:24

Wozald1989, there are no average children on mumsnet.

Tue 26-Aug-14 19:17:07

DS (now going into yr5) taught himself to tell the time at 4 and when in yr1 could certainly answer questions on time (examples that mrz gave) however, he finds lines of symmetry tough and 3D shapes so totally agree that kids can be strong in certain aspects of a subject but not all.

Likewise DD loves reading/literacy (and is v good at it) as long as it is fiction. Getting her to read any non fiction is like extracting teeth!

Wozald1989 Tue 26-Aug-14 21:09:13

I've started noticing that iamnotmintrested

Wizard19 Tue 26-Aug-14 21:13:55

Thanks * diamondage* dd is actually competent at the listed yr1 objectives, which I guess leads to the bordering, as some things are beyond yr1. Knows the 10 x tables from counting 10 p pieces. Knows 5 times table from learning the clock, so knows minutes at each number.

Older one knew all tables before end of yr1, never used reciting methods to learn.
even though she has great understanding of time - it isn't nearly enough enough for what?
13 Tell the time to the hour and half past the hour and draw the hands on a clock face to show these times

mrz Wed 27-Aug-14 07:38:54

I'm not clear what you mean by "Knows the 10 x tables from counting 10 p pieces. Knows 5 times table from learning the clock"

If I asked her what 7 X 5 equals would she be able to answer instantly? If I asked how many 5s in 45 could she answer instantly?

"it isn't nearly enough enough for what?" It isn't nealy enough to be considered to be bordering Y2 ... it isn't how it works.
Her ability for telling the time is a small part of Y3 content ... so the teacher would say just that ... "in some aspects (time) she is exceeding Y1 expectations ..." they wouldn't consider her to be bordering Y2.

diamondage Wed 27-Aug-14 10:37:19

However, hopefully the teacher would consider the OPs DD is bordering yr2 if, as the OP said in his latest post, his "*DD is actually competent at the listed yr1 objectives*".

Of course not all parents understand the depth of the competencies and not all children perform as well at school as they do at home.

Wizard19 why do you think your elder DD had a lost year in yr2 - do you think it was her teacher, or do you think the school struggles to differentiate generally?

mrz Wed 27-Aug-14 11:48:21

Why would they diamondage? They would look at the child's learning needs and how to help her to progress not artificial concepts like being "border Y2"

diamondage Wed 27-Aug-14 12:20:46

And yet you knew exactly where your most able pupils from last year were performing (borderline L3) as well as knowing what their next steps were - one doesn't have to preclude the other does it?

mrz Wed 27-Aug-14 12:31:09

Yes of course I know where all my pupils are diamondage it's called assessment, however I'm not saying of they are borderline Y2 or borderline Y3 or borderline Y4 because they aren't! I've taught children who in some strands were working on the Y4 curriculum and in other strands on the reception curriculum which border should I say they are on?

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