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End of Year 4 levels - need a reality check

(29 Posts)
CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 09:43:47

So just received dd's glowing (I have a feeling all the reports are glowing) end of year 4 report....well done to dd. A little confused about the levels though, whether they are good or very good or not so special, especially as I'm trying to get a feel for what her chances are of getting into an academically selective independent school.

Maths - 4a, reading 4a, writing 4b.

What are/were your dc's end of year four levels?
If your dc went for the 11+ were they a good indication as to their suitability?

Hedgehogsrule Wed 09-Jul-14 09:51:01

These are very good. These marks would be deemed ok (while not great) in Yr6. I'd have thought they'd be fine for the independent school, as long as they test children based on the national curriculum, rather than what they might be doing in a prep school.

ihearttc Wed 09-Jul-14 09:51:25

We haven't had DS1's yet but going on what they were at Easter (ours get reported every parents evening)

Maths-5c Reading 4a and Writing 4b

To give you an idea he is in the top set of a fairly standard Junior School. He is good at Maths but definitely not the best in his class.

tiggytape Wed 09-Jul-14 09:54:44

Level 4a at the end of Year 4 is the standard quoted here for entrance into the superselective grammar schools in neighbouring areas. It means the child should be at a high level 5 when they take the 11+ right at the start of Year 6 and that is the standard needed to pass.

sixlive Wed 09-Jul-14 09:55:28

It depends on how academically selective the school. A very academic private school those would be average yr3 results.

Hedgehogsrule Wed 09-Jul-14 09:57:44

That's interesting iheart - children moving into secondary school are expected to have 4s in their Y6 Sats, aren't they, with a 5 in Yr 6 being deemed good. Having said that, a fair few children do get 5s in Yr 6. That still means that a 4 or a 5 at yr 4 level is extremely good. And a 4a is the top type of 4.

PastSellByDate Wed 09-Jul-14 10:02:47

Hi Clueless:

First off as others have said these are good results - MN has info on expected progress through NC Levels here:

the sub-levels work c (just working into this level), b (securely working in this level), a (easily working in this level and showing signs of being ready for work/ starting to dip into work at next level up).

Finishing Year 4 at this level is a good sign that your child is doing well and would be a reasonable candidate for the 11+. My advice is have a look at the 11+ forum for your region to find out more about what your areas tests require: - just scroll down to REGIONS and look for your town/ city/ area.


Theas18 Wed 09-Jul-14 10:04:37

clueless they are good results, of course they are, however it's difficult to extrapolate to what might be OK for an academically selective school at 11+.

Like iheart, I'd think they were " top set" ie comfortably top 3rd of the year but not " top in class" kind of levels. So if they are OK for 11+ depends on how selective the school is and you need to ask them directly. Also look at whether they mostly take from preps or state school that'll give an indication of how "coached" the kids are.

Hedgehogsrule Wed 09-Jul-14 10:21:41

How selective is the independent school? If it's a bog standard selective independent school, and the tests are based on the national curriculum, this will be fine. If it's Eton or similar, then who knows. It is generally a lot easier to get into a selective independent than a grammar.

CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 10:25:27

sixlive really!? Those are average for yr 3 academic private schools?! shock

Thanks all, yes dd is in the top set for English and maths, within the top sets I'm a bit vague, she's not top top, but above average I think - but I don't know if her cohort is reflective of the average cohort for the year group or particularly bright. She is in an British curriculum international school overseas. I believe it is equivalent to a very good state school in the uk. She won't be professionally coached, I'm stabbing in the dark to find a suitable coach where I am, she'll just do fortnightly sessions with an ex teacher, nothing intense...If she doesn't get in without intense coaching then it probably means it's not the right school for her.

PastSellByDate Wed 09-Jul-14 10:28:53

Clueless -

I think you're taking a pretty sensible middle road - some practice/ a bit of tutoring/ but not overkill.

I think the only advice I can offer - as you're abroad - is perhaps talk to people who've got older children there and learn about how they approached all this. They may have some pointers or good advice.


CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 10:29:12

hedgehog that's useful to know that selective independent probably easier to get into than a grammar. I suspected so too, but good to see someone else saying it.

I don't know and cannot say how selective it is. I have a feeling it depends on the cohort entering the process ( number of and ability) so if there are x places then they cream off the top x candidates.

CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 10:33:20

Correction - meant to say number, ability and coaching..

Theas18 Wed 09-Jul-14 10:33:39

clueless, depending on area and if there are grammars then it is usually lots easier to get into an independent school than a grammar. the inde wants bright kids with potential, but ultimately also wants to fill it's places.

A parent with a child who is able to get a grammar place may well consider and inde too, but usually will take the grammar if they get in. Been through this 3x with my kids and their mates and I don't know of one that got offers at both that took the fee paying route.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Wed 09-Jul-14 10:41:46

Of course average marks are going to be higher in very academic private schools - those very selective schools select the academic children!

Level 4 in year 4 is a good level.

herdream1 Wed 09-Jul-14 10:45:02

If these are the average end of year 3 levels, what levels are the children in year 6 are, I wonder. I am confused because the grammars in my area is more than possible to enter with the OP's level and these grammars achieve better GCSE results than any private secondary schools (including Eton and such). May I ask which schools are the most selective primary (or prep) schools and where the children go to from there?

CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 10:45:32

Theas - our home is not in a grammar school area, the nearest grammar is 17 miles away and has a very wide catchment ( or no catchment might be a better way of looking at it), so they cream off the cohort which is mostly highly coached. We won't go for the stress and pressure of trying to do this, especially from abroad. I had a dabble in the 11+ forum couple of times, it made my head spin and I didn't want to get into a black hole I couldn't get out of. I went to a grammar school myself some years ago in Buckinghamshire, and the 11+ then was nothing like now.....

CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 10:49:35

herdrsam what area are you in? May I ask .....I might know it, and it'd give me another clue.

herdream1 Wed 09-Jul-14 10:51:16

Hi Clueless, I am in Essex.

herdream1 Wed 09-Jul-14 10:51:47

Where are you?

CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 10:51:50

Ok, thanks.

CluelessCrapParent Wed 09-Jul-14 10:53:52

Expats Overseas, hoping or planning to return to our home in the uk, west Berkshire towards Oxford.

diamondage Wed 09-Jul-14 10:56:47

Here's a table that gives you a rough idea of the national picture. Note the 5A typo, the lower one should read 5c.

Although it states that the top 1% achieve level 6, this does vary by subject. So around 6% nationally gain level 6 maths. It also varies in reading if you compare teacher assessment to tests, so less than 1% nationally achieve level 6 in the reading test but around 3% are assessed by their teacher as level 6 readers.

It can also vary considerably by school. In some schools around 30% or more will achieve level 6 in maths for example.

ihearttc Wed 09-Jul-14 10:58:54

We live in the middle of nowhere so there is no grammar schools to go to...there is literally only the local high school were everyone goes.

He has had 2 amazing teachers though the last couple of who was a bit of a maths whizz who really pushed maths loads. This time last year his literacy levels were a 3B I think...his teacher this year was very much focused on literacy so his literacy levels have gone up.

His new Y5 teacher is a NQT so we shall see what this year brings.

Retropear Wed 09-Jul-14 10:59:26

Depends on the grammar.One of ours go on VR(not taught in primary) and they only need 50% on Eng and maths to get in.So if they're fab at VR but average at say maths they still have a very good chance.Another combines all 3.

A lot of the 11+ content isn't even covered in year 4,certainly wasn't at ours.

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