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Sight reading as a strategy in EYFS/KS1 - mrz?

(161 Posts)
Guilianna Wed 11-Jun-14 21:17:44

What would you say to a SLT convinced that 'sight reading' is as effective a strategy as phonics, and who advocates teaching mixed methods?

mrz Wed 18-Jun-14 17:47:20

banquet and bouquet are both borrowed French words

FinDeSemaine Wed 18-Jun-14 19:54:40

There are a couple of schemes of Latin pronunciation in currency, interestingly. One is the old version, used in churches in England in the past and strongly related to Italian pronunciation. The other is the newer version based on texts that were intended to teach Latin to foreigners, complete with pronunciation guide (stuff like V should be pronounced like a breath of wind). Lots of differences - eg hard v in the old version and w in the new version for a V. Veni vidi vici is generally Vainy Veedy Veechy in the old version and Wainy Weedy Weaky in the new.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Wed 18-Jun-14 20:20:50

Roughly how new is the newer version? I do remember the fact that ecclesiastical Latin has a different pronunciation being pointed out at school, but I don't really remember ever hearing 'Wainy, Weedy, Weaky' as a pronunciation for veni, vidi, vici.

Having said that, we didn't do an awful lot of spoken Latin at all. It was mainly written translations from Latin to English or vice versa, so most of the Latin I've heard spoken has come from hymns/antiphons etc at church, which will have been ecclesiastial.

FinDeSemaine Wed 18-Jun-14 20:38:05

I learnt Latin in the mid-eighties and I think the new pronunciation was coming in around then (I was 11 so I can't remember the details but it was certainly presented as something new and interesting - not sure how new is new for a classical scholar). Unusually, we were taught to actually speak Latin and spent a lot of time in class actually talking. Our teacher rarely addressed us in English.

FinDeSemaine Wed 18-Jun-14 20:43:48

Googling, it seems it came in a long time before that! I turned up something where Winston Churchill was complaining about the classical pronunciation (new version).

diamondage Wed 18-Jun-14 20:48:11

You really, really like to get to the bottom of things don't you, Diamondage
blush Ah, well, yes I can get a tad inquisatorial when I want to understand something I've become obsessed passionate about. I also rather like things to make sense, in a logical way, and I could never ever understand spellings at all (thank you look and say). Since teaching DD2 to read, however, I know there's a system, albeit a complex one.

perhaps not all recently imported words from another language
Good point masha!

Also all those pointing out that not everyone pronounces Latin words etc. in the same way is right - I was reading a paper introducing Greek and Latin medical terms with pronunciations and it was written by Hungarians who showed the various ways the words were sounded out in Hungarian and English. I suspect that languages with a transparent code just say the words following their own code, which makes their lives so simple!

I like to pronounce words correctly for my accent, so knowing how to correctly pronounce a word is important to me. Bouquet is never bucket, whatever your accent!

The spelling for banquet is French, but not the pronunciation (I checked, the French end it with /ay/ just like bouquet), the way we pronounce it more closely resembles the middle English word banket, which has a similar meaning.

SoundsWrite Wed 18-Jun-14 20:56:39

Very interesting discussion! But diamondage, if your child can read those words, she ain't got a problem. I can think of many an adult who might just have problems with some of them. And, surely, one or two are a question of accent: 'radiolarian' could easily be /ar/ or /air/, though with the sound /r/ pronounced because it is followed by a vowel sound.
All I'd be thinking about here is clearly defined strategies for spelling the words and meaning (of course).
Oh, and enter her for the Spelling Bee in the states next year! smile

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Wed 18-Jun-14 21:22:52

I was assuming 'new' would have a fairly broad definition when talking about Latin. grin I do have a vague recollection of discussing the different pronunciations of the 'v' in Venite. Possibly in the context of Adeste Fideles.

FinDeSemaine Wed 18-Jun-14 22:09:41

Yes, in this case it seems 'new' was anything in the last fifty or a hundred years! Bless. I remember my fairly ancient Latin teacher imparting the v pronounced like a breath of wind thing as though it had been discovered yesterday. I suppose in her terms it was more or less yesterday. Anyway, the classical pronunciation is more akin to what Latin would have sounded like as a living language and the church pronunciation is what we were all doing when Latin was a posh leftover from another era.

maizieD Wed 18-Jun-14 22:41:47

but I don't really remember ever hearing 'Wainy, Weedy, Weaky' as a pronunciation for veni, vidi, vici.

Ah, you've never read '1066 and All That' (written in 1930s, I think). They said that the Romans summed up the British in 3 words; weany, weedy & weaky grin

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Wed 18-Jun-14 23:15:52

There appears to be a bit of a gap in the selection of British history books on my bookshelf/Kindle. Although I have heard that quote now I come to think of it. I may have to go and pay off the library fine and see if they have a copy I can borrrow.

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