Advanced search

Why would my DD and 2 other children have to sit an extra maths test on their own?

(110 Posts)
Campaspe Wed 04-Jun-14 18:03:45

DD is in year 2 and has just done her SATS. Just before half-term, when they were doing their SATS, she told me she had to complete a maths booklet with a cat on it, which she found very difficult. Today, DD and 2 other children from her class had to go and sit another maths booklet that apparently had a cat on the front of it. I assume this is because she struggled with the first one - the second one was much easier apparently - so they wanted to see if she could do an easier paper. But why? Can any teachers shed any light on this? DD didn't mind doing it, she was just puzzled.

mrz Tue 10-Jun-14 07:28:21

From a quick look

This whole section

What is included?
The Key Stage 1 Tasks and Tests cover:

Reading and comprehension
Writing (including spelling and handwriting)
Speaking and listening

While the children no longer sit formal SATs papers, they are helpful practice to make sure your child has understood what they have been taught in Infants School and to aid revision.

There are no S&L or Science tasks or tests
and children do sit "formal SATs papers"

MotleyCroup Tue 10-Jun-14 07:10:45

Good for you Mrz. Worrying that there's further errors.

mrz Tue 10-Jun-14 06:16:55

MotleyCroup I contacted the Maths star website and they apologised for the errors on the site and say they have corrected it. However on closer look there are a number of errors in their KS1 information page

mrz Sat 07-Jun-14 13:51:11

I suppose that's one positive to the new tests in 2016

IsItFridayYetPlease Sat 07-Jun-14 10:13:10

But there is also issues from parents sides. Each year we see MN posts asking where they can find the tests, so they can test their children at home. Test are KING in many parents eyes, so with pressure like that from parents schools are in an uphill battle

Disclaimer - I am a Year 2 teacher of many years who follows the regulations and keeps tasks and tests very low key. Most of mine were completed in February / March, so cannot be used as a final level of the year. Usefully timed when parents ask what they can to make sure their child does well in the test, not so useful when parents ask to see the test papers and dispute my levels. Before people say I should be explaining; it is explained on our website, in our brochure, on the Year 2 page of the website, on the termly newsletter that goes home, at parents evenings termly, in my annual assessment information evening, to the children. We are an "outstanding" school, where children make "better than expected" progress and with a higher % work "above age expectations". We have a rigorous internal moderation, we cross-moderate with local schools, I am a LA moderator out visiting schools across the LA to look at their judgements. Parents know all this, yet tests are all that matter to them. It takes a strong will to battle that pressure and stand up to the constant complaints and challenges. (this time of year it is exhausting with the extra appointments parents request prior to the main parents evening to talk about tests!)

mrz Sat 07-Jun-14 09:34:02

It's very evident there is a great deal of maladministration and poor practice happening

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 07-Jun-14 09:27:27

You would think so. But given some of the procedures described on this thread alone and that this subject comes up on here every year, who knows what is actually happening.

mrz Sat 07-Jun-14 09:23:32

Surely if you gave the level 3 test you have evidence that is where the child is working ... since the test can be given at any point in the year a child tested in the autumn term will/should be working at a very different level by the end of the year to the test results.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 07-Jun-14 09:17:06

TBF the guidelines did only say consider giving the test. If you have enough evidence to show that they are not a level 3 then there's no need to even consider it. But that should be part of your normal teaher assessment anyway.

What worries me about the OP's situation is that there is no value at all in giving the level 2 test after the level 3. Unless the result of that test is making up a considerable part of your TA and you need to decide on the sub level.

mrz Sat 07-Jun-14 09:05:34

If the teacher assesses the child as level 3 they select a level 3 test if they assess the child as level 1 they select the level 1 task ... teachers using both are clearly not confident in their own assessments which is the level that has to be reported (not the test results).

mrz Sat 07-Jun-14 09:02:34

This instruction seems pretty clear

Which tasks and tests to use

Schools should select tasks and tests appropriate to the level at which each child is judged to be working.

jazz45 Sat 07-Jun-14 09:01:10

It does seem open to interpretation. I do think that teacher assessment is far more important and the information from the tests only plays a very small part (if any) of that.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 07-Jun-14 09:00:12

There used to be a table in the ARA that set out which tests children at different levels should do. I don't know if it is still in there

For level 3, children only need to sit the level 3 papers and if they don't achieve the level 3, they should not be asked to sit the level 2 paper. So the OP's school and any school insisting all children sit the level 2, then the high scoring ones sit level 3 are very clearly in beach of the statutory requirements.

There might be a slight grey area for children assessed at level 2 who sore highly on the paper. In order not to put a ceiling on attainment teachers are asked to consider whether there is evidence that the child is level 3. I've seen guidance from NAA saying 'consider giving level 3 test'. Although that document is on our LA web page it is from 2004 and I have no idea if it has been updated.

I do agree that 'should be tested once in each subject' is slightly more ambiguous than 'children should only sit one test in each subject'. There is a bit more room to interpret it incorrectly.

AmberTheCat Sat 07-Jun-14 08:41:53

The instruction that children should only be tested once a year sounds rather ambiguous. It's clear that teachers on this thread have interpreted it in different ways - some as meaning that children should only be asked to sit a L2 OR a L3 test, others that they can sit both, but that they shouldn't be tested in, e.g. both Jan and May. Is it spelled out more clearly anywhere else? I can't seem to get into the teachers' guidance for administering the papers without a password, but if what jazz45 says is right, that these say a child can do both, then this sounds like a correct interpretation of the 'test only once' instruction, doesn't it?

mrz Sat 07-Jun-14 08:19:49

The ARA isn't guidance it's statutory

jazz45 Sat 07-Jun-14 08:05:17

The teachers guide for administering the tests that comes with the SATs papers says a child can do both. I had always assumed that the ARA guidelines means that they can only do one assessment, but that may consist of 2 papers.

mrz Sat 07-Jun-14 06:40:34

One badly informed commercial site I'm afraid MotleyCroup.

MotleyCroup Fri 06-Jun-14 21:55:45

It's - site above.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Fri 06-Jun-14 21:52:47

Which education site?

The sites are out there, that doesn't mean they are right though and schools should not be taking their information from them. I've just found one that says that there are no tests in KS1 just teacher assessment.

MotleyCroup Fri 06-Jun-14 21:49:08

The education site states that all children must take level 2 and those achieving level 2A will take level 3. So those sites are out there with this information,Mrz!

Dipping in and out as trying to get ds to bed!

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Fri 06-Jun-14 21:46:33

It also states that those children assessed as level 3 will take the yr 3 optional SAT as well as the level 3. They are making their policy up as they go it would seem. It doesn't say that all children sit the level 2 paper though. Those assessed at level 3 aren't sitting it.

MotleyCroup Fri 06-Jun-14 21:40:44

The first site states that those children gaining a level 2a in maths will take a level 3 paper!

MotleyCroup Fri 06-Jun-14 21:38:38

I have found more but don't know if you can read the ones I've found. I'm on my iphone so small screen!

MotleyCroup Fri 06-Jun-14 21:37:49

And another Maths education site

MotleyCroup Fri 06-Jun-14 21:37:04

Here's one

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now