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How many sub-levels would you expect a child to progress between Y2 and Y3?

(18 Posts)
MerryMarigold Mon 12-May-14 10:03:56

I have no idea what 'normal' progress would be. Of course there is some progress, it would be serious if there was zero progress! I am also aware that levels can be manipulated somewhat by teachers, but is this possible with the Y2 SATs?

Ds1 seems to have gone from a 2C's/ 2B's at the end of Y2 to 2A's now. Is that good progress? His teacher this year is very good, so I am a bit surprised it's not more - but maybe this is 'normal'. Just to add to the confusion, he was at an Infants and is now at Juniors, so I don't know if the Infants inflated levels on leaving (is that even possible?) and Juniors have deflated in order to show their own progress by Y6.

In the meantime, I am trying to figure out if he has any specific learning difficulties or other issues which are holding him back. Or if he is just average and I need to let it lie. And yes, teachers have said there is 'something' but they can't figure it out either, it's not glaringly obvious.

ShanghaiDiva Mon 12-May-14 10:13:31

At my dc's school we are told that 'normal' progress is one to two sub levels per year. This would suggest your son is on track.
My dd is in also in year 3 and the level on her last report was 3b for Maths and 3a for literacy. She finished year 2 on 3c and 2a respectively, so one sub level so far. I am happy with this as (regardless of levels) I can see she has made good progress this year.

MarathonFan Mon 12-May-14 10:19:52

Usually it's considered to be 2 sub-level's per year.

However, if there was very good (or little) progress at the end of the previous year it may be different because progress is rarely linear. For example, if DS went up a whole level in the last term of Yr2, then there might be a period of consolidation at the start of yr3, of if progress had slowed towards the end of yr2 it might be because he was consolidating ahead of a jump IYSWIM

In year three it is further complicated but he fact that KS1 SATs are marked by the school and it is in the interests of the infant school for them to have made good progress. I'm not saying teachers "cheat" but where the line is a bit grey, it is common knowledge that KS1 SATs can be marked generously. This is especially true where there are separate infant and junior schools. The juniors can't deflate - they are stuck with the marks the infant school give them as their starting point!

So, the progress your DS has made is broadly in line with what would be expected. What has his teach said about his actual progress v expectations?

MerryMarigold Mon 12-May-14 10:20:11

OK, that's good. Feel better.

MerryMarigold Mon 12-May-14 10:29:22

Teacher said he is reaching his targets (which, imo, are quite low - he is bottom table for everything). This in itself is 'interesting' as we live in a very poor area with very high levels of ESL and low levels of parental involvement. I would guess (only a guess though!) that we are the only family with both parents educated to degree level who speak English at home. Does this make a difference? You always hear it does, but maybe it doesn't. I guess it is good if it doesn't, but I suppose I feel some 'pressure' that children with other parents 'like us' (in different classes) all have kids at the very top of the classes so it makes me wonder if ds has a problem or not. Also, I have a high flying ds2, so seeing how he doesn't struggle at all academically has also made me wonder...

They are still concerned about him in terms of attention/ focus (adhd). I am concerned about some specific problems with his reading/ writing (dyslexia?). He is on the SN register but nobody is entirely sure what it is for. Various things been tried with little or no success.

MarathonFan Mon 12-May-14 10:48:18

Ah, i have "average" children from an educated family with lots of parental input. It took me a few years to relax too

redskyatnight Mon 12-May-14 11:52:42

"Normal" is a level over 2 years, so 1.5 sublevels a year - so in reality you will see 1 or 2 sublevels progress.

Sounds like your DS is doing well. IMO there is a bigger jump when you change levels (e.g. 2A -3C) so you may not see any change now this year.

DeWee Mon 12-May-14 12:28:22

Juniors schools do regularly complain that infant schools over mark. Thats why our infant school involves the juniors in the marking, as they were complaining rather loudly. I will note though that since the juniors have been helping mark, the marks haven't gone down. grin

I think year 3 often there is less progress though than other years. Don't know why it is, but I've heard a lot of people commenting ove rthe years at the lack of progress in year 3 (lots of different schools/teachers)

MerryMarigold Mon 12-May-14 12:41:12

Thanks for that redsky. Yes, marathon, maybe I will relax by the time ds1 hits Y6!

PastSellByDate Mon 12-May-14 13:23:16

Hi MerryMarigold:

Mumnset put together this explanation of expected progress through NC Levels/ sub-levels through school - tables at bottom are useful rule of thumb guide to where your child should be at the end of each school year.



MerryMarigold Mon 12-May-14 16:30:35

Thanks sellby. Level 4 in y6 seems so low when some y3s, according to another thread, are there already, but maybe I shouldn't be expecting too much. I'd love a level 5 by y6 though.

MarathonFan Mon 12-May-14 16:34:38

Ah, that's problem with mn. some yr 3s may be getting l4 but its by no means normal. Most Will also be getting taught to the tests at home rather than having generally enriching lives

MarathonFan Mon 12-May-14 16:38:28

Some Will find their progress tails off as they go towards secondary and have to think for themselves!

Taffeta Mon 12-May-14 19:00:48

I went to see the head the other week as I was concerned about DDs reported lack of progress in Y3, when we can clearly see she is making progress at home.

She's an "average" child, ended Y2 on 2As but we were told in Feb she was still there, concerned so spoke to teacher and then head. It seems that even the head admitted the way L3 is marked in KS1 is quite different to the way it's marked in KS2. We were told not to worry as she has progressed and it should be reflected in her levels come June/July reports.

Interestingly, a similar thing happened with DS when he was in Y2/3 admittedly working at higher levels, but still an almost plateau year. He made up for it in Y4 and 5.

Oh and take with a pinch of salt what people post on MN re levels. It doesn't reflect the real world.

MerryMarigold Mon 12-May-14 19:47:59

Taffeta, I would be delighted if ds1 had ended Y2 on 2A's. If that's average, I don't know what he is. He's ending Y3 on 2A's and 2B's.

MummaSmurf1 Mon 12-May-14 21:18:02

OP - progress is fairly normal for a Year 3. Next year you'd hope for 2 sub levels. However, if your child has been on SEN reg for a year and it's not clear why I would advise finding out more about that. There are many avenues you or the school can go down to investigate further. My recommendation would be first get hearing/sight checked, second ask GP for referral to paediatrician.

MerryMarigold Tue 13-May-14 11:23:21

Thanks Mumma. We have had sight and hearing checked. All fine. Just colour blind. He has had OT check and has had some OT therapy for motor skills (though it was short) and is on another programme to help sensory processing and concentration. None of it has really helped. He's been seen by a paed (inconclusive but poss adhd). He goes to 3 SN groups in the school for different things. He is not really bad in any one area, but mild to moderately bad in several areas, so hence they can't diagnose. Paed said likely 'developmental delay' but they can't treat it.

MummaSmurf1 Tue 13-May-14 18:47:50

Ahh I thought you meant he was on register and no one ever said why or were doing anything about it!

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