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Is there any point dd sitting the 11 +

(22 Posts)
CocktailQueen Tue 25-Mar-14 21:09:50

When she doesn't want to go to grammar? She'd like to see if she passes, that's all...

She's not hsving tutoring, needless to say.

She's a level 5b for maths and 5a for English. She's year 5 in middle school.

simpson Tue 25-Mar-14 21:12:38

Why does she not want to go to grammar?

Is it because she thinks she might not pass?

Levels wise I think she has a good shot at it smile

BornFreeButinChains Tue 25-Mar-14 21:19:50

why does she not want to go?
yes sit it, why not, she might change her mind.

HmmAnOxfordComma Tue 25-Mar-14 21:26:42

If she doesn't get stressed by the idea, why not?

Several friends have dc who took and passed the 11+ with no tutoring but had no intention of going to the grammar as it's 20 odd miles away and the comprehensive 1 mile away is a good school and involves a much shorter day, obviously.

But these kids wanted to take the 11+ for their own satisfaction and the parents were happy for them to do so as a pass would make it easier to have a back up plan if they hated the comp (low birth rate years).

Hoppinggreen Tue 25-Mar-14 21:36:18

There are quite a few children who take it and don't go. Mind you, I do know of children who aren't keep but change their mind once they'd go and look around the school.

CocktailQueen Tue 25-Mar-14 21:51:51

Because she's happy where she is, and none of her friends are going to grammar. It would mean a much longer day, as the grammar is half an hour away by bus.


Hoppinggreen Wed 26-Mar-14 09:04:45

If she just wants to know if she would pass get some past papers and let her do them Under exam conditions

Retropear Wed 26-Mar-14 09:10:54

Why not?

Because it's a waste of everybody's time not least the admin dep who have to allocate places.hmm

BornFreeButinChains Wed 26-Mar-14 09:16:47

Cocktail a few posters have come on here saying, all of a sudden their DC has decided to go to grammar, something has just clicked.

What if she suddenly decides she wants to go? And she wanted to take the test but then didn't.

Its open to everyone and its her decision.

Quinteszilla Wed 26-Mar-14 09:20:50

What if all her friends are saying they are not going, but plan to take the exams just in case, and then She ends up as the one not going?

Nocomet Wed 26-Mar-14 09:39:04

DD2 refused to do any practice papers for exactly the same reasons.

She wanted to go to the same school as her sister and her friends and avoid a long two step journey (plus extra HW).

Personally I wanted to avoid still being tied to getting her to and from the bus (pretty much my old 3 mile school run, just much earlier and later) and I'm sceptical of the value of HW just because parents expect it.

Oh and the grammar were really smug and unhelpful when I wanted her to look round early to encorage her to give some papers a go. Their open day was so late in Y5 and the test so early in Y6, you had to have decided without ever setting foot in tbe place.

Thus she never bothered with the 11+

So far (Y8) she's really enjoying the comp. Has made loads of friends. Not sure she's doing a lot of work, but I'm not sure she's needed to yet.

AcrylicPlexiglass Wed 26-Mar-14 09:42:18

No point at all. Stay away from the whole horrible thing!

PastSellByDate Wed 26-Mar-14 10:21:34

Cocktail Queen:

I think the issue is what are her next options. Here in Birmingham there definitely is a sharp divide in the quality of senior school education between grammar schools (which are state funded, so free to pupils, but places are based on your scores - highest 600+ scores get into the 5 grammars).

My DD1 wanted to sit the 11+ (which ultimatley was not a success - she's missed a place by about 10 pts) but mainly because her great friends were and she wanted to carry on going to school with them. We couldn't afford tutors, they could. They got in - we didn't. May or may not be related - DD1 is bright but rushes and refused to write down her sums so frequently makes simple mental arithmetic mistakes that had she written down all steps for her problem she would easily have caught. The tight timings of the 11+ probably made her feel even more pressured (most children didn't finish maths sections) - so I suspect it all went awry there.

My advice is this:

research & discuss the benefits of grammar school education vs. comprehensive in your area. (Here 90%+ pupils in a grammar go on to Russell Group universities / ~15% from a comprehensive). I have no idea what my child will want to do at 18, but I was concerned that not going the grammar school route would narrow her options (hello hair dressing/ catering school). It's clear that Cambridge/ Oxford options happen for Grammar students but are way out of the norm for ordinary comprehensive kids in Birmingham.

Visit the school(s) - DD1 could see clear differences between the comprehensive she's now going to go to and the grammar schools. Clean & pleasant environment vs. run down and a bit down at heal being the obvious one. She could see for herself the advantages of going the grammar school route.

Sometimes going the grammar route is about moving away from bad influences. (and that can be desirable - certainly many parents of quiet, studious boys are desperate to get them into the grammar system and away from bullying/ peer pressure)

Comprehensives have their good points - a full spectrum of abilities, interests and normal slice of the community - and that can be beneficial. In our case, we're fairly confident (and the school has also indicated) that DD1 will be placed in upper ability groups (possibly top set for maths) - so the benefit of being the big fish in the small pond, which can give a child a lot of confidence. And that could be the most beneficial thing ultimately.

Finally - oddly enough - in terms of sport opportunities the comprehensive is better than one of the grammar schools we saw (recently co-ed but nearly all teams (rugby, tennis, cricket, soccer, etc...) were only for boys - girls teams just weren't available). And I suspect this is what will please DD1 about going to her new senior school (the comprehensive near us) as she lives for her sports.

Much like chosing which primary school to go to - chosing senior school is a big decision made more complicated by the fact that you want so much to be right now - education, developing concepts of independence, self-worth, identity, etc... and ideally a positive experience which helps the child reach their potential. For us educational attainment is part of the equation - but every child/ parent will have their own priorities.

My advice is visit schools, talk to your DC and keep your options open right until you absolutely have to make a decision (especially as 6 months from now her friendship groups/ priorities/ and opinions may be slightly different).


panicksbury Wed 26-Mar-14 10:46:00

Why not?

She might change her mind.

What's wrong with keeping option open?

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 27-Mar-14 20:02:24

Why not? Because she will probably fail unless she gets lots of tutoring and works hard at the past papers. And children who fail the 11 plus usually feel shit. Some more sensitive ones feel shit for a long time and think they are thick. Why go there if you have a great comp locally that you wish her to attend?

teacherwith2kids Thu 27-Mar-14 20:51:30

Slightly different scenario here - though i wonder whether geographically we are quite close (residual grammar county adjacent to a 3 tier county).

DD (like DS before her) did the 11+, untutored, to see if she was of such a high ability that she would thrive best in the local highly superselective [I am not, in general, a supporter of grammars BUT believe that, in the same way as there are genuine outliers who canbnot be efficiently educated in mainstream full spectrum comprehensives and need special school education, there are outliers who need a 'special school;' model of selective schooling, those 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 children whose educational needs are outside the normal range].

However, we chose to share her results with the other localish less selective, single sex, grammars that she did not want to go to and we didn't want for her, because it was important for her that she could 'hold her head up' with friends whose aim was those grammars.

As expected, she missed the superselective cut off by a few marks, but she knew she had 'succeeded' in terms of huigh pass marks for the other grammars. However, again as expected, she'll join DS in the local comp in September.

Ericaequites Fri 28-Mar-14 01:19:17

It's not her decision, really. Start tutoring her and make it a game. Talk up all the advantages of the grammar. It's better that she has the option. Disclosure: I had a mother who was a bit of a tiger.

CorusKate Fri 28-Mar-14 01:26:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CocktailQueen Fri 28-Mar-14 09:47:04

Hmm. OK, thanks all. I really do think she doesn't want to go; most of her friends won't. But she is bright... and I want what's best for her.

So what do I do now? Do I organise tutoring myself/speak to the school to see what they think her chances are/ask the school for tips//liaise with the school?? When would she even sit it? I have no clue.


BornFreeButinChains Fri 28-Mar-14 10:09:32

Do everything you say and get over to 11+ forum.
Amazon, 11+ books, tests, wh smith and so on.

I would get a tutor and get them to assess her. Then plug weak gaps.
I had a change of heart about a school at 16.

I also agree that it should not be her decision. She is too young to understand the wider implications of whats on offer here.

LaQueenOfTheSpring Fri 28-Mar-14 12:17:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

trinity0097 Sat 29-Mar-14 07:11:06

I would keep her in the middle school and let her be a kid for as long as possible!

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